SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hey guys, welcome back to the Sunbelt Developers Podcast. I'm Tim Wright. I'm a broker at Cushman in Wakefield. And today I've got Kevin Duvall here with us. Kevin is the CEO of the Georgia World Congress Center authority. Yes, sir. Here in downtown Atlanta. Um also oversee some stuff down in Savannah. And uh just a really great guy. And I've gotten to know him over the past year. Um really excited to hear a story about what what y'all are doing down next to Mercedes Benz. Um you've got some plans to it's the International Plaza. It is so there was a press release that came out a little while ago. Love to hear some of that and kind of your background, how you got into this role running such a large facility. I think just before we started going, you said it's over 200 acres of property and 4.3 million houses.

SPEAKER_02 0:50

Probably a little north of 4.3 million total square feet under roof at the end of the day. But uh yeah, I'm I'm excited to be here. Thanks for thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_00 0:58

Yeah, man. Um let's just dive in. So I I was kind of digging around on LinkedIn. You're not from Atlanta originally?

SPEAKER_02 1:04

No, not not from Atlanta originally. Okay. Had the great opportunity in 2002 to relocate my uh my wife and our dog here to uh to Georgia uh to work at the Georgia World Congress Center. And the Georgia World Congress Center and and my business and the whole facilities around it are were the gold standard, and really it was the Georgia World Congress Center, the Georgia Dome, and Centennial Olympic Park. And uh I started work uh my career in uh 92. I worked at the Alamo Dome in San Antonio. I got to I got a taste of uh construction because I joined the uh tail end of the construction of the Alamo Dome, and it opened in May of 1993, which was probably just 10 months after the Georgia Dome had opened in August of 92. So I'd always had my eye on Atlanta and what they were doing, and and like I said, they were the they are and they were the gold standard of what happens in our facilities when when you take care of them and and really promote economic development and uh tourism, et cetera.

SPEAKER_00 1:59

Sure, yeah. I know we had William Pate on a couple months ago. I know he shared we're booked for like the next 10 years or so.

SPEAKER_02 2:06

At least at least, right? We're we're always pushing on a horizon at least 10 years out, uh, and then near term filling in some of those gaps that we don't have. But uh anyway, we had a great great opportunity to come work at the Georgia Dome. Um and it was ironically the same year that uh Mr. Blank bought uh the Atlanta Falcons. So they changed leadership, ownership of the of uh the the Falcons, and then I I arrived on the scene um in in August of 2002 and uh got to work uh alongside some professionals and really extend and grow my career uh working in uh a professional sports environment. In San Antonio, the Alamo Dome was the uh home of the San Antonio Spurs. So I got to I got the pleasure of working with them in that franchise for over nine years before we moved here and do a lot of concerts and other type of events in a stadium uh since we didn't have an arena in in San Antonio at the time, and we're just really it was enjoying it very much. The uh Spurs were going to move out into another arena, and so it just felt like the right time to begin to look around and see where an opportunity would uh lead me. And and lo and behold, there was an opportunity in Atlanta and in the south, warm, great, great city, great reputation, hosting Olympics and Super Bowls and and the like. And so I threw my hat in the ring and was fortunately selected, and so we packed up the car and and rolled over here without any family or anything and moved uh moved in to uh become Georgians and I've had our family here since and and the rest is kind of history for me.

SPEAKER_00 3:35

All right. So okay, so you came to Georgia Dome, and you've kind of been there since and just kind of climbed.

SPEAKER_02 3:41

I haven't really. So I had an opportunity when I got the Georgia Dome to be the assistant general manager. So I worked with the general manager closely to just execute against the operations of of the facility. So I worked there for three or four years, and then there there was an opportunity. We we had some young children at the time, and and you know, you're you get torn between family and and work and how to balance everything. And the Georgia Dome had a rhythm that was weekends and nights and et cetera, and an opportunity to move literally across the uh street figuratively to the World Congress Center in the same position. And as I tell people, um I got to park in my same parking space, and instead of going left to the Georgia Dome, I got to go right to the Congress Center, and I was still involved with it because the uh World Congress Center Authority overseas at the time oversaw the World Congress Center, the Georgia Dome, and Central Olympic Park. And so it really gave me an opportunity to lean into the convention side, convention and trade show side of the business that I previously had been basically sports and entertainment. And so it gave me an opportunity to do that. And then also it exposed me to other, you know, our opportunities that we've uh since uh accomplished and achieved on the World Congress Center campus, like College Football Hall of Fame, uh Signia Hotel, New Mercedes-Benz Stadium, all the all the like. So I've been here since uh 2002, so my 24th year with the authority.

SPEAKER_00 5:04

Well, congrats on thank you. 24 years. Appreciate that. That's pretty great. Um I just going back to what you're saying, so so the Alamo Dome, that was late 90s, and then kind of around Georgia Dome the time. Was there I know what's happening right now in kind of the athletics world, like the Braves stadium, like that kind of set like a new tone for what stadiums could be. And certainly we hit we have this entertainment district that's getting built around Mercedes-Benz. Was that kind of like a wave happening in the 90s where there was new stadiums or I don't know? I'm working off of two data points here.

SPEAKER_02 5:35

So No, that I think that's a fair question. I think um you did see a wave of new facilities. You had some old facilities in the 70s for stadiums, and then they uh the new wave. I think San Antonio wanted to uh put a bet in that maybe they could have NFL football at the end of the day, and that was part of the bet for the Alamo Dome, and it just didn't materialize uh for reasons unknown to me. But um they still had a stadium that they built, they financed, they paid off uh within I think it's two to three years of opening. So they had a a a fully functional facility that hosted a lot of different events. And so you but you saw other communities begin to look at different facilities and and uh exchange facilities, if if that might be the right way to say, uh to to the newer and better facilities in Charlotte and and different locations. Because they're competing. Well, certainly um you compete, right? And so if you want to uh much like the Omni uh Coliseum here, uh is now a state farm arena. I mean, so the same wave caught for stadiums and arenas, et cetera. Now convention centers don't don't do that quite as much as as that, uh, but you really see that in the sport and entertainment industry.

SPEAKER_00 6:41

Yeah. So uh I don't know much about your world with facility management and kind of overseeing a huge print like this. Like how did you get into that kind of feel? Like was this.

SPEAKER_02 7:00

And then I I uh I lucked up on a program that was really about facility management uh and getting a master's uh in it. And so um I I focused in on that, got my master's of education, Texas Tech University, and uh and then focused in and said, well, this facility side of the equation really kind of is cool to me, the design, the boot construction, um, and then the management thereof. And so in my mind, I'd always had an idea that well, I need to be around sports or entertainment. I've really liked them all my life, but uh I'm not I'm not a college athlete, I'm not uh turned into the university side of the equation, but uh my mind said, well, everybody has to play in a facility, so you have to have sports teams that play in facilities. And so I kind of put my mindset out there of looking for some opportunity, and they were building the Alamo Dome at the time in San Antonio, and I'm like, hey, uh I started pestering them. And uh and then it was uh I I'd like to be an intern. And so uh they allowed me to come down and intern with them to start my uh facility management career, and it's just kind of grown from there. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 8:01

So here we are.

SPEAKER_02 8:02

Yeah. And here we are decades later. Decades later, yes, sir.

SPEAKER_00 8:05

Yeah. So is that you feel like that's still like a core of why you enjoy what you do is just being around the energy of it and most facilitate and yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:15

Most certainly. I mean, look, we FIFA World Cup right around the corner, right? Pretty big. Pretty pretty big uh there's only a few places and locations around the world you do uh events like that, Super Bowls, et cetera. So those are all fun and and they they come, you plan that you execute, they become a memory. Um but then you know the the the engine, uh the economic engine is really these trade shows and conventions that we also do uh on our campus. And so you get to see uh face-to-face interaction where business meets new technology and and people are there to buy and sell and and inform and learn. And you do that all in the World Congress Center. So you have a building that's built, and then you have many cities that come set up and they tear down, and then they're gone. And you move in the next one. So this week we've had American Chemical Society, and they finished up their last half day yesterday, moved out, and uh simultaneously in building A, we were setting up for volleyball. And so we're we're doing our first wave of volleyball, you know, 30 courts or so this weekend with our with our uh customer, and then they expand to the entire Congress Center next weekend. And so we'll have uh over probably 1,500 teams competing uh in the World Congress Center for volleyball. Then we'll visit nationals or like well it it's one of those uh it it really is uh Tampa Bay volleyball. They they do one every year. It's called Big South Volleyball. Actually, they do multiples uh with us, but this is their largest one. It's kind of a invitational, and yes, you have winners that go on to different levels, but uh they've been our partner in Atlanta for over a decade, and uh it just has exploded and grown with youth sports, and so we'll have them and then we'll tear down all the courts, and then we'll flip into modex, which is about logistics and uh warehousing and all that. So, yeah, modex is a big one uh for us, uh, and certainly you'd understand it in the real estate business because it's about warehousing and and all the things that go on inside that and transportation. That started out in one building of the World Congress Center, uh building B, and now it it's uh eating our entire footprint of 1.6 million square feet, and then um they need more square footage.

SPEAKER_00 10:15

So Okay.

SPEAKER_02 10:17

Well, are y'all gonna expand the well I think uh we're we're in the midst of some master planning with uh HKS has been our master planner, and we're in a phase three, and and certainly we're looking at all those options of where we could uh expand footprint in the World Congress Center, what the customers' needs are relative to today versus you know when we were born and the different generations. So Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:37

I know William hit on just for for them and I I gotta watch my words here because he they they were real careful with the messaging. They so there's the citywide those are the really big conventions. Absolutely. And you kind of hit on this earlier. They take a day or two to set up, you're you're there for you know four or five days and they take another or two, sometimes three days to tear down even so like for them, they they see you know those gaps in the the schedule, it's really beneficial for them to get these kind of two or three day conventions. I don't know what you call those, but they're kind of mid-sized. So I don't know if it's like do you feel like the the citywides are I would say getting too big or I guess you bigger the better, it's more hotel rooms, so maybe there's no there's no downside.

SPEAKER_02 11:25

So I think Williams right on right on the point. Like citywides eat up a lot of your schedule. And and especially uh when they use all your buildings, you're you're maxed out, you don't have any other capacity, so then hotels and everything else have to work on in-house business in addition to those for what they're hosting on citywides. And so what Williams team and we have a great relationship and our organization work closely together, we're hand in hand. And what we've uh begun to focus on is can we shave off days on on either end of a of the larger ones or can we stack the World Congress Center? Because not everybody's gonna be a citywide and use 1.6 million square feet. Uh can we put a show in building C? Can we be moving in a show in building B and have a simultaneous show going on in building A? And so I think we've been about a program of trying to uh increase our occupancy uh by layering a little bit better uh on our schedule. At the end of the day, it's we're no different than a hotel or an airline that once the day goes, your your inventory's expired. And so we're trying to maximize our occupancy and use of our inventory to drive economic impact.

SPEAKER_00 12:29

Yeah. Um do you have any favorite conventions? I know the boat show is big.

SPEAKER_02 12:34

Well, I mean, I I like all the conventions. Now, boatshow is a public show, so you have different types of conventions. I I love Modex coming up. I think it's just fascinating to me to see kind of where the ball's going on some of this.

SPEAKER_00 12:44

I'm sure they've got robots that they show up.

SPEAKER_02 12:46

They do, they have AI and how warehouse moves, and so I kind of get fascinated by that. But I I love the use sports too. I so I don't really have a named favorite. Uh auto show is a great show that we is a public show that we we love. And then IPPE comes every year. They're uh been been the longest serving one with us. And this year we have the protein one. It's the International Um Poultry and Processing Expo. That's it. So they're meat and uh meat and uh and poultry at the end of the day. So we like that. And then uh we have a bi-annual coming this year. It's called International Woodworking Fair. Okay, and so it's a huge piece of business that happens in August, and there's not a lot of trade show activity in August generally. Um and so we uh we're s I'm excited to have them back because they they are kind of a a uh indicator of how the health of the economy is for us at the end of the day. And so some of these are nodes of health of the economy and seeing where they are generally lagging nodes, but uh it's it's good to see and they're on a good track right now.

SPEAKER_00 13:44

Yeah. What was like over COVID? Like, did all this just I mean, it was it was pretty quiet.

SPEAKER_02 13:49

We didn't have to talk about that, did we? I mean I don't know. It's the the C word, yeah, yeah. The C word, but um uh certainly uh it uh devastated uh our industry. Um it happened at the end of Modex, believe it or not, that year, and there was this whole discussion, and then everybody's was out. And then yeah, we shut down and and just it became a domino effect of all events, just uh continually canceling. And what really saved us though was this energy around youth sports. Uh we were and I gotta give uh uh all the credit to the leadership of the state of Georgia and the governor about saying, hey, we're gonna take a very um uh progressive stance on how we're going to uh maintain opening of businesses if we can and not shut down completely or do anything along those lines. And so it gave us the opportunity to have a lot of space uh in the building to host events where you didn't have to be on top of each other. And so youth sports helped us, volleyballs and and cheer and and the like really helped get us or keep us sustained. Now the state had to help us at that time too. We were we uh we had some rainy day funds, but they weren't rainy day funds for a year and a half, and so we uh we got some uh help there, and then we also had a temporary hospital in the World Congress Center, so it kept it real. And in building A, we had a temporary hospital. And so uh that's a little that was a little sobering uh to know that you had that. And uh, but we don't like to talk about the C-word. Uh that's in the past, and we've uh moved on, and uh I just feel our industry is has reacted well and and continues to grow.

SPEAKER_00 15:15

We're back. Hey guys, before we jump back into the episode, I just want to thank one of our main partners, Sanji High Roads. David Sanji was actually a guest in season one and has been a strong supporter of the podcast ever since. Sanji High Roads is a commercial real estate development company responsible for nearly three billion dollars in development projects. If you're here in Atlanta, you've probably seen some of their work already, including the high-centric buckhead, that's the the hotel right behind Linux, and the new Howell apartments right on Howl Mill. One of their most exciting projects right now is the expansion of the Savannah Convention Center. It's a $400 million development that's been years in the making. If you're interested in development opportunities or want to learn more about their work, visit SanjiHighroads.com. Now back to the conversation. Uh we can jump around here a little bit. I saw you oversaw the demo of the Georgia Dome. Yeah. Is that right?

SPEAKER_02 16:05

Yeah, it was the irony. Um I I mentioned when I got here in 2002, the uh Mr. Blank bought the Falcons, and we really have a great relationship with those uh those guys at the end of the day. Yeah. But about 2007 he started talking about uh, hey, uh need a new facility. And I was like, wow, uh, this thing's 15 years old. But I can't believe I've walked into a situation where this is gonna happen. So I had moved over to the World World Congress Center and those negotiations began there. And then we had the retirement of uh, you know, one of our th our three leaders that have been uh for the World Congress Center, Dan Grablin, was there for 33 years, was kind of like uh, you know, as much of a developer as you could be for the state of Georgia, working as a state uh for a state entity because he was there when we started building A and and kind of progressed on everything. But um it was uh a little ironic to me that yeah, I shifted back to the Georgia Dome as a chief operating officer in 2015, end of 2015 to oversee the last year and a half of the the Georgia Dome and and then and then the uh taking down of the Georgia Dome uh was was on the list and uh and watching Mercedes-Benz Stadium come up was, you know, I look back and and and and this uh this picture up here uh back in the whatever we are, 90 This is 99. 99. I just remember the dome and and and where Mercedes-Benz Stadium is these days and parking lots and all that building up next to it. Um but it was yeah su super exciting to be both uh the demolition, but then also I I got to sit at the negotiating table for all the definitive things we did for Mercedes-Benz Stadium. And so that was really a a uh an opportunity for me uh to continue my growth, uh to sit alongside our uh then my predecessor, um Frank Poe, as executive director and and the team that we put together to negotiate all the definitive documents for the successor for a stadium that turned out to be Mercedes-Benz Stadium.

SPEAKER_00 17:54

Yeah. That's amazing. Any anything stand out to you from those negotiations? Like I'm sure what's stack of paper?

SPEAKER_02 18:01

Well, uh there's a lot of stacks of paper, and there are multiple uh multiple controlling documents, but at the end of the day, um what stood out to me was that the Falcons and and uh Mr. Blank were committed uh to staying in Atlanta and they were committed to being on our campus. And so just really set the set the tone that we were gonna do it together. And we we had a close relationship, uh, you know, obviously guided by Frank uh and his leadership. Uh and I was just kind of working alongside him and helping put together uh information uh that we needed to uh to get to where we were. It took uh say it took probably two or three years to get everything in place, and then uh we we broke ground in 2014, as I recall, and then it opened in 2017. So next year, 10 years of the Mercedes-Benz Stadium, that's hard to believe.

SPEAKER_00 18:48

That is are y'all do anything like some of the people.

SPEAKER_02 18:51

Well, I'm sure they they have some plans. Well, they have some plans, but um certainly they're also smart enough to know Mercedes-Benz can't be static, and I think that's what we really like about Mr. Blank and and his team too, is really um they're working on 2.0, Mercedes-Benz 2.0, and what you have to do and different things you have to reinvest in every year. And so um we think it's uh a great approach. Um and you know, suite holders you know wanna want something new. Yeah, and all the premium spaces that they continue to r invest in. It's uh it's great.

SPEAKER_00 19:21

We're thinking like a a full reno of uh I don't I don't think it'd be a full renovation.

SPEAKER_02 19:24

They they have to come to us for their capital plans uh and uh and and present to us, but and so they'll start on the suites, but they've been making r uh not renovations, but upgrades, I would say, throughout the duration of the first ten years. Uh you know, Rich McKay and Tim Zeloski and all those team members know that you have to uh uh continue to upgrade and and stay up with the newest and greatest uh facilities that are coming online.

SPEAKER_00 19:47

So it has held pretty well. It's an unbelievable facility. And to think like you said Georgia Dome got torn down after 15 years, to think like, oh, we have fifty like five years left.

SPEAKER_02 19:58

Yeah, I think um it got it was 25 years ultimately when when the Georgia Dome got built um torn down, but the conversation started 15 years after it was open. And so it's uh you know, for me being a facility management type person, it it's really one of those things like you start to say, well, are these really that disposable uh you know when you when you think of long term? I think the way they built uh Mercedes-Benz Stadium uh is gonna last longer than that. They uh really were intentional about how they did and uh really have a lot of great amenities for for fans at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_00 20:31

Aaron Ross Powell I've heard the opening has like there's only so many times that they can open and close it. Yeah. Well, I mean listen like you can you know refresh it.

SPEAKER_02 20:40

Yeah, I uh you know they've got a they've got a tall order on on on on the table for FIFA to uh cover the Mercedes-Benz logo on the top of it, you know what? I don't know that they've uh got all the uh everything uh uh figured out. That's a technical term, but um they've got to do that at the end of the day. So um, yeah, we had Dan.

SPEAKER_00 20:58

We had Dan Corso ahead. I mean I think yeah, it sounded like they were still trying to figure it out. But I I'm curious, is the concern the the kind of the video component, or is it just for the in-person fans that are coming? Because can you just like CGI over like Well, I would think you can.

SPEAKER_02 21:16

Yeah, the that thought has crossed my mind, and I'm sure a lot of smarter people too, that um you know it's the Atlanta Stadium, so they require removal of all references to Mercedes-Benz uh being a partner. And uh so the the biggest logo they have is on that roof, and so it'll be interesting to see how they do it. But to your point about that uh special opening of the roof, it's it's pretty, pretty cool to watch uh watch it open in like seven to ten minutes and and it's uh it's pretty uh neat to watch it from above, right? Get a shot from above and just see looks like a camera aperture opening, but uh really is kind of an optical illusion at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_00 21:51

Yeah, it's a it's a cool, cool piece. Yeah. Okay, so I th I pulled this up. I yeah. I know I don't think we uh saw that. That was when you started construction and then halfway through to good spot.

SPEAKER_02 22:21

Yeah, I think it started in April of 14, some plus or minus right there. So we had to uh work closely with the Falcons to assemble uh the footprint and the land and and one of the churches uh and the and the several churches that were there had to um uh you know be purchased and then uh relocated to uh to work on that. But yes, that's the footprint of Mercedes-Benz Stadium. You had to demo roads and Martin Luther King Boulevard had to be removed.

SPEAKER_00 22:50

You all really redirected the roads here. I didn't realize certainly whatever I guess it was MLK.

SPEAKER_02 22:57

That is MLK.

SPEAKER_00 22:58

Okay. Yeah. And it looks like, yeah, and in February you started.

SPEAKER_02 23:01

They started demoing demolition on that. So it was uh a major undertaking.

SPEAKER_00 23:06

Okay, so this is August 2015, it's about a year later. And uh roads filling in.

SPEAKER_02 23:14

They did. They uh made sure they get the roadway in, and then uh they're starting to erect the uh the roof line and the the opening and the closing there. And then and then you had two simultaneous stadiums there, and it was w really one of those things, well, when is it gonna open? I I know the team wanted it to be open for the 2017 season, but we and we we kept the dome around long enough just in case there was a need to to do otherwise. But then uh we came in and and uh you know came in and started clearing out the the Georgia Dome, and then uh demolition happened in two phases, and there's that infamous uh phase where the bus pulls in front of everybody, the MARTA bus, but uh and then we had to come back and knock down a little bit more of the Georgia Dome that uh didn't didn't work the first time around in December of that year, as I recall.

SPEAKER_00 23:58

Okay. And was that another controlled explosion? It was.

SPEAKER_02 24:01

Um they did it twice. So Man. Yeah. Just then Georgia Dome didn't want to go.

SPEAKER_00 24:07

I mean it's like did y'all ever do simultaneous events? Like one and both it was this one had to be fully shut before you know that one.

SPEAKER_02 24:15

We finished up, I think our last uh we did a motocross event in uh the Georgia Dome in February or March of 2017, and that was the last official event. And so I mean you think about just collapsing the stadium, but then we had to shift uh personnel around and people were interviewing for jobs for Mercedes-Benz Stadium. You don't you don't think about that uh of all the people. So we individually met with folks, we had some folks retire because they'd been there at the Georgia Dome for a long time. Some people transferred the World Congress Center, some people went on to other jobs, and some people went over to Mercedes-Benz Stadium. And literally, when I'm over at the stadium, I I still see some of those great faces that are working there and making us all proud.

SPEAKER_00 24:51

Hey guys, before we get back to the episode, I want to thank one of our partners, the Beck Group. Beck is a collaborative team of designers, builders, and technology experts that cover a multitude of disciplines all under one roof. Typically in a project, you have a designer and a GC, but Beck is different. Both of these disciplines are combined under one roof, so nothing falls through the cracks. This approach helps organizations rethink the way they plan, design, and build their spaces. To learn more about their work and services, visit Beckgroup.com. Now back to the show. What what was the most challenging part of tearing down Georgia Dome?

SPEAKER_02 25:22

Well, I don't uh I mean, I I think they had to go in and uh my word will be harvest, but uh the sustainability aspect of getting all the the things that they needed. But uh I don't know that there was any hard part. Um I think what the worry was you're you're about to implode a facility adjacent to a MARTA tunnel that was within yards or feet of a Marta tunnel that went through there. Um, and then you're about to implode a facility that is adjacent to a billion dollar facility. And so uh the stickers are still on it. Yeah, exactly. The stickers are still on it. So I think you had you have great professionals that work on on things like that at the end of the day, and so that's what they uh they did.

SPEAKER_00 26:00

Wow. So were you in charge of hiring those? No, you know what?

SPEAKER_02 26:04

We worked no no we we we hired the Falcons uh their development arm to develop the new stadium, and then they also had the responsibility uh and the the cost to tear down the uh Georgia Dome. That was one of the things we negotiated. We didn't want the state of Georgia or the World Congress Center to have to pay for the demolition. Multi-millions of dollars to do that. And so uh they did that and then they uh recast the the space in the Home Depot backyard. But one of the things that we did in the deal point was we carved out the 60,000 square foot space adjacent to our plaza uh for the by the Congress Center to uh potenti to have the potential redevelopment right, excuse me, to have the redevelopment right to build a potential hotel. And so uh we began to work on that um probably uh right after we got the definitive documents done for the stadium and they turned ground on the stadium. We began work on a potential hotel partnership and we went to the It's been in the works for a while. Yeah, we have. I mean, it we started in 2013 and we were looking for a private partner to come in and and the the state would put in the land into the deal. But uh as you you know, in real estate background, there's not, you know, you need a little bit more uh help at times, and so the land itself, just donating that wasn't going to be enough to make the deal uh work. And so I give it uh credit to our board at the time and Frank at the time to really begin exploring other options around the country that we could look to and say, well, should we uh have a private developer do this, or should we as a public entity look at developing uh the hotel? And so we explored Houston, uh Chicago, Houston, LA, New Orleans, and just places that had been uh active in the uh building of hotels that were publicly owned. And so we we switched years in 2017 to a uh uh an approach that we were gonna be the owner of the hotel. And so we exercised our option on that 60,000 square feet. We combined that with the six acres of adjacent uh property on the plaza up there just uh north. Let me pay off for it.

SPEAKER_00 28:06

So this is this is the Cygnia hotel that we're talking about. It's got a thousand rooms. Um just making sure everybody's following along. Yeah. Um you know, sometimes these satellite photos are like this might be a satellite from the 60s or there you go.

SPEAKER_02 28:20

That that that really gives you a good uh view. Yeah, the Home Depot backyard, which was uh the former Georgia Dome site. Was this like a little bit? That was a plaza, right? We we had we call it West Plaza, and it was just an offset between the World Congress Center and the Georgia Dome at the end of the day. But you see where the the dirt mound is there and it says nest on four, that was the 60,000 square feet of space that we said we would uh keep as a limited redevelopment right for a hotel. And so we began to add that to what we had on that West Plaza uh to have six or seven acres of combined space to look at a hotel. And so started in 2013 um and evolved in 2017. We decided that we would be uh the state would take the lead, the World Congress Center specifically. And so then to do a to do a development deal with the state is is a little bit different and unique. And so we had to go, we could issue bonds, revenue bonds. Right.

SPEAKER_00 29:14

Which is uh I guess how Savannah pulled it off. Correct.

SPEAKER_02 29:17

They they they definitely followed in the same footsteps as as we did. Um because uh you know that we manage the Savannah Convention Center at the end of the day, and that authority was very uh active and wanting to have a headquarters hotel uh that they could own too. So revenue bonds, capacity, et cetera. Um we uh uh we got everything ready and we had our GMP, and then guess what? That C-word hit that we talked about a while ago, COVID. And so we had to pause for uh 10 or 11 months, and we really did not know if we would be able to make the deal happen. And uh, but um we we found uh an opportunity uh and we worked with it and then we sold bonds in 2021, as I recall, and then broke ground in April of 21 on the cygnia.

SPEAKER_00 30:02

Wow. I remember when y'all broke ground, we were all like a thousand rooms. That's a lot of boosted down. Like who who decided a thousand?

SPEAKER_02 30:10

Like, well, I think we we might have started with six or eight hundred, but then we kept pushing to see what we could we could afford to to build and what the market would absorb. We didn't do that just because Frank or Kevin or anybody on the board liked that number. It was really what can the market absorb at the end of the day? And so uh we were we came to the conclusion that it was near a thousand nine hundred and seventy-six rooms. We didn't quite make the thousand, but you know, marketing-wise, it's a thousand is a thousand-room hotel. Uh the salespeople would tell me that that's the way we're gonna talk about it. But um it we got there and we then we found the rap partner with Hilton. Uh they're uh extremely great partner. Uh they put some money in the deal. We had some money in the deal, and then we uh we had uh at the end of the day about a uh $550 million project that we did. And so it has been uh it has performed well. And then our uh our good friends in Savannah uh really thought uh well, if you can do it there, can can we use some of the same uh pieces of uh information and and legal uh information, et cetera, and definitive documents to develop there. And as you know, one of your sponsors, uh Sanji High Roads. Yeah, we're certainly uh shout out to uh David Sanji and his team. They're doing a great job. Uh we're underway. And last time I checked was on level four of the hotel there, and they're rocking and rolling, and yeah, and uh we appreciate their stewardship of that.

SPEAKER_00 31:32

No, they're it's that's gonna be great.

SPEAKER_02 31:33

I think Brassfield's the G C O B and G, yeah, they they are they're doing a great job rocking it out.

SPEAKER_00 31:38

So he told me you know, it's on that Hutchinson Island. Oh, yeah. And um somebody described to him it was like building on top of a bowl of soup with a layer of cheese on it. Oh, right. They had to put like a thousand piles down and it was just going looking for bedrock.

SPEAKER_02 31:59

But yeah, you're building on an island. Yeah. Um and so uh the biggest risk is being in the ground. And the same thing for uh this hotel too. Any risk is in the ground, as you know. And so we've gotten out of the ground and and so the risk uh profile has gone down. But uh you know, they're professionals and uh they're doing a great job. And so uh I should be there next week uh to see to see uh our team there and and see the progress and then uh support the event that's there next week.

SPEAKER_00 32:26

Yeah, we're we're gonna go down I don't know if it's later this year or whenever there's you know enough to show and like do one of those kind of hard hat tours. We we've toured 1072. We're we're gonna go down to Centennial Yards here in maybe a month or two, kind of give like a final update before World Cup. But um But yeah, it's it's very, very exciting, especially for Savannah. And I I just hear the convention business down there is doing so well, it's become such a nice little getaway for people. It is.

SPEAKER_02 32:52

It is well, you know, the state uh invested $275 million to expand the convention center down there. So the state of Georgia put an investment on the table to double the size, and it is a beautiful facility. So I look forward to you getting down there to see that. Yeah and then uh putting on a hard hat and and seeing that hotel uh because that's another three, four hundred million dollar project j adjacent to it on the island.

SPEAKER_00 33:12

So what what was hap so like 2014 y'all took over Savannah? I know uh 2008 was just decimated Savannah and obviously SCADS kept the the kind of life happening down there. Like what what was the decision making where I guess did Savannah come to y'all and they're like please help or did y'all Well, I don't think it was please help, um, but we we've always known about Savannah and the convention center down there.

SPEAKER_02 33:36

It was privately managed. And the board chairman um reached out to Frank and just have a conversation. And that's you know, that's how a lot of things start, right? With a conversation. And so uh Frank invited me along to to be part of that conversation. And a conversation led to, hey, could you look over our shoulder? Are there things we could do better uh down here? And then uh it led to, hey, would you guys be interested in um, you know, kind of putting together the two largest horsepower uh, you know, uh places in in the state of Georgia with Savannah, the ports there, and then Atlanta and the World Congress Center, and can we help them? And ultimately um it was probably uh a good alignment for them to help bring the state more uh into uh what they were doing there. The the facility wasn't a state facility um per se. The state had been involved with either land or some some initial funding, but uh it was more local uh and county there. And so when uh strategically we took over in 2014 to manage, and part of their desire was, hey, we we have a deficit here, we need to cut back on the deficit. So we were able to achieve that with them. Um and then we just kind of grown with Savannah, and then they wanted to expand and and we helped help them uh work together with them to help work on that expansion of the convention center, and which, you know, fortunately opened last year in February and uh marvelous facility, and then uh we work simultaneously toward the tail end working on a hotel project and looking for the right time.

SPEAKER_00 35:00

Yeah, I'm excited. It it's gonna be just the renderings of it, like the balcony and Edwards.

SPEAKER_02 35:07

14 story, you're gonna have uh beautiful. I'm a little jealous uh on the roof line uh of what you're gonna be able to see, and uh but it's neat there.

SPEAKER_00 35:14

Yeah, that's gonna be special. Um I I remember when we had lunch, you told me Cetinia Olympic Park uh used to have a bunch of concerts. I remember going to a couple of them, and y'all haven't done as many lately. I I can't remember what was what was the reasoning finding that.

SPEAKER_02 35:28

Well I think uh so uh if you kind of peel back, uh you know, it's the legacy to the Olympic Games, and uh it was kind of the vision of Billy Payne to have the Centennial Olympic Park. And so uh a culmination of uh private uh some donation of land and then purchase of land, you know, it got us to where we are today, a 21-acre park in downtown Atlanta that is is the lasting legacy, or one of the lasting legacies, but m probably most prominent lasting legacy of the Olympic Games. And I think you can see the development that's happened around there. If we go back on your timeline here and look, you should you should go look at the development because I got here in 2002 and there wasn't a Georgia aquarium and there wasn't World of Coke and there wasn't a National Center for Human and Civil Rights.

SPEAKER_00 36:07

Uh okay, so that's 99.

SPEAKER_02 36:09

Let's see how far back in the Central Olympic Park in kind of the early phases after the Olympics.

SPEAKER_00 36:14

Okay, so 85, that's a little fuzzy. So I would go to uh Wow, look at that. Okay, so I've heard this was a part of town. Nobody wanted to be around. You didn't want to go there. Right.

SPEAKER_02 36:25

I mean, you had uh you have commissioners staying up on Peachtree Street uh that didn't want to walk through international and walk through the park to get there because it was a little bit scary. And so Mr. Payne had a vision and uh we began acquiring all the the land uh together and then they put it under the control of the World Congress Center, and uh it has been one of the the jewels uh that we can uh that we believe is an asset, huge asset for the state of Georgia at the end of the day. But you know, at the end of the day, we did all those concerts and all that, and we we weren't we weren't making any money at the end of the day. We were we're still losing money. Got it. It was fully a lot of work. Yeah, and then you see you take wear and tear on the park, you take it offline, yeah, and you have a neighborhood that's grown up around there. Yeah, and so everybody wants to use it. Now we'll we'll still use the park for events like that. So FIFA World Cup, we're gonna do the fan festival. Yeah, yeah. So we'll be offline, closed, whatever you want to say, and then we'll have at least 16 event days down there around the World Cup of what we're gonna do in the park. But and if our customers that uh that uh rent the World Congress Center want to use the park for some sort of uh event, then we'll be happy to uh let them do that. And we're actually gonna host an event there this weekend uh for U.S. soccer is gonna have something in the park. So um, but we've really cut back on it intentionally, uh, to be a park uh and and uh a gathering space for people to come enjoy and uh and and reflect on the Olympics, but just enjoy downtown Atlanta at the end of the day. And so would we do large events again? Perhaps I get asked most often and when are we gonna let the uh the uh fireworks come back? And so I think uh, you know, in 27 we're gonna take a run at uh bringing back the 4th of July fireworks. This year we can't quite get there because of all the FIFA World Cup activities, but in 27, I think we're gonna really look at it. You know, this year's our 30th year anniversary of the Olympics that was here in Atlanta.

SPEAKER_00 38:13

So hey guys, before we get back to the episode, I just want to thank one of our partners, USA Cabling Technologies and Solutions. Alex Morris and his team have been incredible partners for us and actually helped us bring our studio setup to life here. And also got to give a shout out to Danny Pratt. If you're building out an office, upgrading your audiovisual systems, or need any low voltage solutions, these are the people to call. Their team is professional, reliable, and truly top tier at what they do. To learn more, visit USACablingTech.com. Now back to the show. That'll be special. Like bringing that back. I I've gone to a couple of shows down there, and it's just there's nothing like it. You're in the middle of the city, it's fun. You got the skyline around you. It's fun. Um I was gonna ask you. Okay, so World Cup, when that comes here, we got a whole month. Are y'all we're still running conventions?

SPEAKER_02 39:00

We're actually not. And so we just got a black one. We had to, yeah, we had to work with our customers and relocate or or tighten up their time. And so Skills, uh, the national skills event that we do each year, and we've been doing for five or six years, and we'll do for another eight years, will come in early June, and then we um we're open, but we're we're not uh online with conventions. We'll have some media activities that take place in the World Congress Center.

SPEAKER_01 39:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 39:26

And we had hoped to uh to be able to capture some other events, but we haven't those haven't materialized yet. We're working with the Department of Economic Development to develop a little uh show off Georgia location inside the Congress Center just uh to expose people while they're there. You know, but it'll be beautiful and fun in the park, and I'm sure every day will be sunny and and and no rain, but it might be a little warm, and so people want to uh come inside the World Congress Center, then we'll keep the doors open and let them do that. Um but we don't necessarily have business that we're uh conducting during that time.

SPEAKER_00 39:57

Yeah. Got it. Um okay, so you kind of alluded to this. We've got the aerial up now. Potential expansion, or I mean maybe we can go in two different directions here. We've got the International Plaza. Yeah, we had Mason Zimmerman here last week. We were talking about Yale's plans, and I'm curious where that stands. I I know when the press release came out, it was you know a lot of buzz around that. Like it's just more more energy happening down here. Absolutely. I'd love to hear where y'all are at in that project.

SPEAKER_02 40:27

Yeah, there's a couple things that uh that kind of started the ball rolling there. We've we've heard consistently from our customers, there's not a whole lot to do within you know walking pr uh you know distance of the World Congress Center. You need more retail, food and beverage downtown. Despite, you know, Dave and Marvin's done a great job with their development on Marietta Street and some of those eateries there. And certainly when the CNN Center was was online, uh they had food and and activities here, but uh our customers just kept uh desiring more options to do things, close proximity, so we don't have to bust everybody there, don't have to move people around a lot. And so um so we we began to let that uh cascade over us, but we were focused on the hotel. Uh we had to get the hotel open and kind of get that right. But then the opportunity came to say, hey, you know, if you if you look at the International Plaza and where it resides today, uh I've heard people refer to it as the center of the watermelon, it's the uh donut hole, uh the hole of the donut. Uh that you have just so much activity and energy around it that it would be a great location to develop something on. And so we went about a we've been about a process. We hired Pope and Land and Fuque development uh team along with Nelson to look at the International Plaza and see what we might be able to build on top of the International Plaza. Now, the International Plaza is just a plaza on top of a seven-story parking garage. There's a 2,000-car garage underneath. So there's a few complexities to working on it, but we've been working with them to see what would be feasible in the retail space, food and beverage, um, entertainment uh space that that on some level is gonna compete with uh with some things that Centennial Yards would do, but we really don't want to be competitive to Centennial Yards. I mean, with this development of this magnitude is not going to be uh on scale whatsoever with what Centennial is doing. Cause them live nation. Yeah, I mean, they're just different things. Those are just different levels of themselves. So we're proud and excited about what's going on there. It's gonna help our customers at Centennial Yards. Yeah, but we're still chasing it just to see what uh might be be possible and practical at the end of the day. You gotta get what the costs are, you gotta figure out a way to finance it. Uh you gotta see if there's any partners that wanna join in with you. And so I we're still in that due diligence phase on it. And so we we'll see where we where that uh where that goes. Um and but at the end of the day, we own the land. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, so that that's a fortunate spot to be in the whole of the donut. We own the we own the land with all the drivers around it, and so let's see where we can go. And so that's where we are right now. We're not gonna rush to it. Um uh you know, it took us 10 years to do a hotel, to get a hotel open. So I think it's uh there's wisdom in in taking it slow and steady and methodically. Uh, and I think if you if Mason would say the same thing, we've been very methodical about our approach to make sure that what we're doing, but we've got great partners. Uh certainly I've told people if if we could somehow take the battery and plop it right down there, let's do it. But obviously that's that's just a different environment altogether for that. And also what's gonna make uh this happen uh or potentially happen is you gotta have more people living in downtown. Uh and so we we have event drivers from from State Farm Arena, uh Mercedes-Benz Stadium, the Congress Center, Signia Hotel. Um, but you're gonna need people uh on a daily basis, uh like today when we're in between events uh to populate and anything that we would put there. So we're excited about um uh you know the center and what they're doing. Uh and I know you had Ryan on, and uh we're certainly excited to to take a peek under the curtain and see where they're gonna end up here and that's That's going to be important for our customers and Centennial Yards opening and really let's find out what it's going to be like, what that energy level is going to be. But we're going to continue to look at it. Simultaneously, we've been looking at Smash or Planning for the World Congress Center. You always have to look at, you know, what's next. You have competitors out there, and our customers go see competitors. And so you have to go out there and say, hey, what's next? What do we need to do for our customers of the future? And really, it's not our customers, it's our customers' customers, right? It's the attendees that you want to come to these events that help support the exhibitors at the end of the day and ultimately help uh the the our customer who signs the license agreement to be successful. And so what do they need and what are their wants and what's the demographic looking like? It looks like more like you than it looks like me. And so we have to be uh open to what the needs are of the next generation that are going to be in the trade show and convention industry. And we also have to keep our ear to the ground and make sure we have enough space to support all those needs. And so certainly um we could probably use more exhibit space on five, six shows that we have a year. Um and uh but you have to, you know, five, six shows, we have to make sure that that makes sense at the end of the day. Right. Yeah. Because another building on our campus would be a big footprint. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:18

Where would you I can we like do you have any?

SPEAKER_02 45:21

Well let's move to yeah, let's move to today and see where what we look like today.

SPEAKER_00 45:27

Okay, so that is not a great picture. That's that is October of last year. Yeah, certainly.

SPEAKER_02 45:34

I mean, so you see the World Congress Center, we're uh we're full on uh replacing our roofing. So that's a little $52 million project. Just a little just a little project uh when you put a million square feet plus on the on the roof. But so I mean there there are there options? Certainly you can go vertical, but vertical is going to be expensive on top of it. So you could stack exhibit halls. There's other places that stack exhibit halls, and so that might be a look look at it. But as you look at the campus, I mean the open spaces we have right now are north on the yellow lot and the marshalling yard, um, two key pit uh key spaces. You could jump North Side Drive and look at the blue lot, which is uh which is there. Now, you have a lot of uh topographical uh opportunities as you it just balls down and when you run the public sets yeah, exactly. It's uh it's a heartbreaker there on that. Um so you have some nuances there, and then the only other uh spots you have on campus right now is Home Depot Backyard. And so um those are those are the open green spaces because uh I will tell you today we will not be uh developing on Centanolopic Park, uh even though that's open green spaces. That's sacred. You can't that's not happening. Not happening. Yeah, I won't be here if that happens. That would feel that would feel wrong. That wouldn't feel right. But uh certainly on top of the International Plaza, but uh Home Depot at Grade right there. I mean, that that's a spot, um, probably eight acres, ten acres somewhere around there. So you begin to look at it and say, hey, uh part of the the feedback we get is just uh connectivity of our facilities. I mean, it takes quite a while to walk from point A to point B. How do you do it? You have a scooter? Oh no, no, no. I just get my steps on as I move around the facility. So I don't I I like to get steps, so I'm not gonna scoot scooter around yet. I may have to one day, but I think it's just about connectivity and how you get people from point A to point B on our campus in the easiest facilitated way. So if we went up to the yellow lot and the martial yard, that feels a little bit far away for me and probably for our customers too. And then our our uh vice president of convention sales would probably kill me uh w because of I would be taking away marshalling art space. Uh that wouldn't be good. And actually, uh as we looked at the stadium uh relocation, that was one of the spots we looked at doing a new stadium, either there or in the footprint. Up in that whole fruit entire footprint. And so we just uh decided that wasn't the best location together.

SPEAKER_00 47:52

All right. That would have that would have changed things. It would have changed things.

SPEAKER_02 47:56

Well, uh significantly changed things. We'd have had to keep the martial yard uh somehow. We'd have had to be elevated. Yeah. But uh I think we were in the right spot with uh public transit with Marta. Right. Yeah. In the in the parking and all that. So we we were in the right location for the stadium, but you'd have to go vertical, I think, at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_00 48:15

Yeah. Y'all could always put some sort of facility here, not almost put like a Umdepot backyard on the roof. I guess you could.

SPEAKER_02 48:22

Yeah, I mean, listen, there's there are a lot uh, you know, architects are are are a lot uh lot greater than me and thinking about that. But certainly, I mean, just my own eyeballing it, yes, you could you could build a you could build something there, uh build something on top of it, et cetera, et cetera. But we're we're not at that point yet. Um listen, we're if we do something there, we're gonna have to do it in conjunction with our partnership with the team, yeah. Um, because that's part of the stadium footprint. And so we'd have to be uh very thoughtful and work closely together, but that's not our focus right now. Our focus is International Plaza and then really looking inside the facility on things that we can improve, right? There's um for lack of better term, cosmetics we could probably improve upon that have been built over the years. When you start building in 76 and you conclude your expansions in 2003, with the exception of when we added those buildings together, you you have varying degrees of uh architectural style, I would say. And so we we probably need to continue to look inside the facility and do that. And then you you're you have a house. I think you told me you you just got a house, right? Yeah, right. And uh the the joy of home ownership is owning a home. The joy of o home ownership is you get to fix things, right? And so we have uh you know, four million square feet of space takes a lot of different elements of care, uh, from rooftop uh to well, like I mentioned, we're doing the roof replacement, we're replacing the escalators, uh, and so it requires a lot of maintenance and reinvestment. And so that's one thing I'm proud of the state of Georgia for continuing continuing to do, and probably why I mentioned to you early on the gold standard that's here in Atlanta and the state of Georgia. Um, they continue to reinvest in the facilities, and that's vitally important. That takes a governor that believes in it, takes a legislature that believes in it, and all sorts of support to to do that. And so we have to continue to do to replace these facilities would be billions of dollars to replace them uh from the ground up. And so we'll continue to ask for uh help and funding some of these larger things. When you when we replace an air handler, it's not just one air handler, we've got hundreds of air handlers that we that we have to do. Restrooms too, like, well, restrooms and uh and the like, and so carpet, flooring, and and so it uh it is uh our home. We're caretakers of it for the state on behalf of the state of Georgia, and uh want to leave it in a better spot, you know, uh something that we're all physically I'm I'm proud of the physical improvements we've made. Yeah, and everybody is, and and and the state of Georgia is too, and it helps us you know seek our mission.

SPEAKER_00 50:53

Great. You're stewarding it very well. So appreciate that. It speaks a lot with the great team. The demand and yeah. Hey guys, before we continue, I just want to thank one of our partners, Corporate Environments. They're Georgia's leading full service commercial furniture and workplace solutions providers. Whether you're building out a new office, redesigning, co-working, or managing large-scale tender improvement projects, their team brings expertise in a full service way workplace strategy, interior design, project management, delivery, and installation. They've got locations in Atlanta, Birmingham, and Savannah, and they're helping businesses across Georgia create spaces that leave a lasting impression. You can learn more at corporate environments.com. And back to the show. Uh okay, two-part question. Uh you compete with who? Is it Dallas? And and the second part of that question is like what's the sales pitch for Atlanta?

SPEAKER_02 51:43

I'm curious what your well I think uh we'll compete with anybody. I think at the end of the day, you have to have that mindset that we have to compete against anybody. Uh our larger competitors uh are probably Chicago, uh, Orlando, uh, and now, you know, Houston and Dallas. Uh they're they're both of those locations are doing some updates to their facilities, but certainly they're on the radar. New Orleans is continuing to invest, they're looking at a headquarters hotel. But I think even you can't you have to look up the road, and I say up the road, it's a little bit further than that, but Nashville. I mean, Nashville's got a fine facility. Uh they're building a stadium.

SPEAKER_00 52:20

All that stuff over the river.

SPEAKER_02 52:21

An indoor stadium, uh right. And so they're gonna have a package uh that begins to look like that, and they're making noise about expanding their convention facilities. They have by far a beautiful uh set of facilities there. And and they also have Broadway at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_00 52:37

So yeah, they do. And the the energy there and it's kind of built in. But I mean, it's it's incredible what that city, the downtown looks like now versus just a couple years ago.

SPEAKER_02 52:46

They definitely uh have invested well. And so for for us, the sales pitch is well, it starts when you land at Hartsfield, right? We're within two and a half, three hours of of domestically of any place in the United States that you can be here and and your attendees can get here. Your international attendees can get here. Oh, you know, the busiest airport in the world can can uh accept your international attendees and the thousand thousands of flights that are are involved in those two pieces and elements. Uh the transportation of Marta, having Marta to get you to and from around the city is is helpful. The package of hotels that are within walking distance of the World Congress Center on Peachtree. And and and now what we have is superb and superior. And then just the campus of what we have there with the the variety of things that we have there. And now you're adding centennial yards to the mix. And the CB group has come in and really working on this facility that we're in today. It's just amazing. Uh, you know, to me, all of that adds up together at the end of the day to why Atlanta's special. I mean, we have uh fantastic dining, and and uh we really do. I mean, we have it it may not be proximate to where we are in downtown. There are gonna be some uh fabulous dining locations coming to downtown, but uh it it's uh it's Atlanta. And then you have a cosmopolitan field of Atlanta, and so I think it just it works at the end of the day. We we don't have a we tell everybody we don't have a mouse, we don't have a we don't we're not by a lake and all that uh fun stuff, but we we do self-southern hospitality at the end of the day, and that's really we got to take care of you. Welcome home, you're here, and that's that's what we want to make you feel at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_00 54:24

Yeah. That's good. Um jumping into your role as CEO of GWCC, like what I mean it's it's probably big team that you're managing. I don't know how many how many staff you have. Like what I mean, what's the right way of saying this? Like from a value standpoint, from a leadership standpoint, like what lessons do you have or kind of principles do you lead your team with and um I guess like what makes you well at your job and and able to lead that.

SPEAKER_02 54:53

Well I'd let other others say uh if I'm doing well at my job, I'm still uh 18 months in uh to the the role and and very fortunate that uh my organization uh uh believed in what I was talking about. But for me, you know, it it there's really two or three areas you want to focus in on. So you ask how many folks that work for the World Congress Center, let me start there. Uh full-time employees between Atlanta campus and Savannah campus, about 200. Uh, but we are supplemented on with partnerships and in certain key areas that that help us with part of our business. Uh so uh the force multiplier of those folks are probably we're well over 300 and some odd folks that are working in these facilities. That doesn't include part-time folks or all the folks that come set up events and tear down events, et cetera. That probably begins to number into a thousand. We brought the Cygnia online and we we have 550 employees at the Cygnia. And so now they're Hilton employees, but they are under it's our ownership uh that owns the facility. So they are representing us at the end of the day. So you have a lot of different uh entities, and of course you have Mercedes Event Stadium and and they have their own thousands of folks that work over there. Um at the end of the day, it it's kind of simple for me. Uh it's it's about culture. You got to have an inclusive culture and uh take care of your people. And I really believe that's where it starts. Because if you have good people taking care of the southern hospitality and executing, then that's what that's part of it. Culture and customer. Customer has to be kind of our focal point. If we can't rally around the the customer uh experience, then we're not doing the right thing at the end of the day, because that's really where you have to focus, because you have to convince them that we want you back. We're only as good as our last performance, right? And so we have to work against that. Uh financial is important. Uh, you know, we uh we do not receive any funding from the state of Georgia uh in the in the form of operating subsidy. We receive funding for capital projects only. We do not receive operating dollars. So that's part of being an authority. We have to we have to self-generate our income through rent, food and beverage, parking, etc., helps form the basis of our each year zero-based budget that we start with. Um, and then really it's facilities. Um, I think I mentioned to you, I mean, I we want to leave a proud physical legacy to those that have come behind us because that was what was put in my hands, and being a caretaker of it uh is important. And so I think if we walk around with that mindset of it and we want to be make it better together, uh together's a big big deal for me. It's not sales does it one way and then ops is another. It's no, it's all together we have to work and and be focused on our customer and execution at the end of the day, and and things will take care of themselves in my opinion, if we continue to do so do things along those lines. And that was that's not anything new, Tim. I mean, that's that's been kind of bred into the way I've approached it based on leadership that modeled before me came in. So I'm I'm just trying to carry that baton and and make sure that we're focused and and uh and staying uh on the right side of the balance sheet and taking care of these facilities.

SPEAKER_00 57:58

Yeah. That's good. I um just kind of a a follow-up to that. I people just m jump around jobs a lot. I just every couple years, like you've you've been very consistent with with where you're at. And I'm curious what um what kept you around, or was it uh you saw opportunity or you just loved the work, or maybe both, or I think that's a great, uh, great point.

SPEAKER_02 58:20

And that's one of the things that as a leader you have to really think about. I don't think you're gonna have folks like me that are gonna stay around in positions in organizations unless they have opportunities to grow. And so I was afforded opportunities to grow and or what I would call side gigs, right? Or side hustles. And um and so example, no, you we have a police department at the World Congress Center. And when I came in in 2002 to work at the Georgia Dome, I was just like, oh, we have a police department, that's great, and we have a security division here. Um and at the time, the chief operating officer oversaw the police department. And I was the AGM and we participated because they were part of the operation piece that we needed to make that make things happen. Um and slowly, as I guess I got credibility for the work I was able to achieve, uh the chief operating officer wanted me to oversee the police department uh because he had bigger roles that he was working on, stadium deals, et cetera. So I had an opportunity to step up and and step into that role. Now, did I know what uh to do with the police department? Probably not. But I knew that we if you have a police chief and you pay attention to what they're what they do, then I could learn and understand. And so uh I had that opportunity presented to me, and and so I took that opportunity. Um and then really uh neat for me and has kept me stimulated, so to speak, as a leader would be the opportunities of all this development we've done on our campus. I mean, really had an opportunity, talked with Gary Stoken in tw 2009 about the uh College Football Hall of Fame coming to Atlanta. Frank Poe got on the ground in April 2010, and I was probably he's probably in his office about five minutes, and I was in there talking to him about, hey, I really think this is a great idea. We should really look at the College Football Hall of Fame. It's the right location. You know, this is this is an empty parking lot that we have adjacent to Centennial Pic Park. So you have that opportunity and got to be involved with that. Obviously, uh the stadium opportunity that I was afforded, uh, you know, and uh and then ultimately the cygnia uh was where I got to be the project executive for the cygnia. And so that really, you know, kind of kept me uh engaged at different levels, but it wasn't opportunities afforded to me. And so what I have to do is look for those opportunities for team members uh within our organization to hopefully convince them to stay around that we're always going to be growing and and trying to make it better. Um and that's that's the goal at the end of the day. But I think it was uh about opportunities. That's why I'm still here. Now you you throw on top of that the events, and that's pretty fun. I mean, listen, you have to be kind of a kind of a different uh uh person to want to be around events all the time. It takes up a lot of your nights and your weekends, et cetera. But man, I I'm still get to be involved with events. Now there's great events that go on Mercedes-Benz Stadium, but I also I I got the bug for convention and trade shows. I look forward to the volleyballers coming in and and this the relationships you make with those folks and just seeing uh the economic impact that we have. So uh I'm a little event junkie, but I also like development, and then I uh I like to be uh lead help lead the organization. And they've given me the board of governors has given me this opportunity, and I'm I'm trying to make it the best it can be.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:25

Yeah. As I you put it that way, it sounds pretty exciting. It it is.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:34

Um We may not be a traditional real estate in uh you know developer, but you get to make cool things happening. Right. It started out with one building right up there, building A.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:43

It started there. This is building A right here. I I don't I don't know my way around. That's building A. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:49

So that's the oldest building, and then you had building B is in the middle.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:53

And then building C.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:54

And this is building That's building B.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:56

Oh, I'm sorry. And then that all that all, but it's our largest building, and then building C, and then we put that connection point in between building B and building C.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:05

And so that was in 2017. When did junior achievement go in there?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:10

Yeah, junior achievement that was another one of those unique opportunities that got presented. We just started having a conversation. We had some meeting rooms that weren't utilized. They were kind of they built a little town. It's a build it's a town, and so it's so neat. And so we um we sat down with them and uh just began that conversation and we repositioned, I forget how much it is, maybe 40,000 square feet of space and meeting space that was underutilized in the World Congress Center uh into junior achievement, and they've been rocking uh ever since. And so we're proud of that relationship. And so it's just and I got to be part of you know that those discussions too. And so it just there's always unique things that you you have an opportunity to be involved with uh in this type of business, at least in my opinion. Yeah um and so it's uh it's fun.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:54

Where else was the football all fame looking?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:57

Well, it was uh in South Bend. So it was South Bend, Indiana was where it had always been, and it had not been successful. And so we we were competing. Uh and we uh uh Gary Stoken reminded us of this the other day when we honored him at our board meeting because he just retired. But he reminded us that it came down to us in Dallas, and there's a owner that everybody knows in Dallas that uh was pushing hard for the location to be in Dallas, Texas, because he has a new had a new stadium at the time in that location. But uh at the end of the day, it wasn't enough to sway the board. They they elected to be here in the location that we're in right now, and uh it's been awesome. I mean, uh we just what 13 years now? No, 12 years, yeah. It's been open and uh just rocking along and uh people every day.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:43

So I don't want to sell this short, but Dallas feels like a heavier football um town, but I'm glad we got it.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:52

Well, I think uh I mean it depends on where you look. I mean, college football, you're you're sitting in the heart of the Southeastern Conference. And so you're adjacent to ACC, and uh I mean we've done some pretty important college football events around here, I would say. Probably uh probably more than uh than than than Big D has.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:09

So yeah, I guess you put it that way. Big D. Yeah I like that. I'm a former Texan, so uh so my uh my good buddy Daniel, shout out Daniel Blanchard. Um his mom would call him Big D. Oh, really? We all all called him Big D. That's that's great. Um well Kevin, this is this has been awesome. I I don't know what else we can dive into. Is there any other projects that feel like uh you want to we're sharing?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:34

Well, I I think we've covered a lot. I think uh you know we're gonna continue to to work closely uh on anything that's presented to us and and see what we can do. We're we we have that mindset of let's continue to grow. Uh I gave you that photo uh when when I walked in here of what Atlanta looked like in the 70s.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:50

We'll have to pop this up on it.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:52

It's uh it's remarkable to think about where we were and where we are uh that started out. I I'll tell you one thing that you may not know, and and I th I find it kind of interesting because um history around this area is um uh important to me. But uh, you know, we were created as an organization or a committee study committee in 71, 1971, and um there was great debate over the location of the World Congress Center. And there was great debate, should it be public or private? And it took about three and a half years to finally end the debate on the location, and there was competing interest from around everywhere on location from developers. You might have heard of Portman or uh, you know, and Tom Cousins and and the like. And and Cousins was working on that uh arena for the the Hawks. Uh and so um uh ultimately that site won out. But there was great debate. There was we were debating about or they, not we, they were debating on the location over by the adjacent to the civic center, believe it or not, uh, versus over here. And then there was a a question about some steel yards maybe just north uh uh of on set. 17th Street uh of a location maybe up there. Oh wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:02

So where Atlantic Steel.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:04

Yeah, Atlantic Steel was. And so I think um we're we're in the right location at the end of the day. And there was even a conversation about being down by the airport in Hapeville for the location of the World Congress Center.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:15

And so it's not that's what's the other convention? Georgia International Convention. Georgia.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:20

So obviously the uh airport would have been is a great contributor down there. But yeah, so the location wasn't settled, and it wasn't until uh the debate was private every time they thought it was settled, it would uh somebody else would come in and say, We'll do it privately, and they'd study it. And then finally in 74, I think Governor Carter finally uh just said, boom, is it done? Uh here we're you know, we've got 35 million dollars, let's get after building A. And so it's really interesting to understand uh what happened and and this whole area that we're in obviously was a little bit depressed too at the end of the day. And so we take great care. Uh for me, uh community is important and to acknowledge what we what we were and where we are and who who we are today relative to our community is important. Uh, because I I don't want to be uh a wall to the community. I want to be you know open and and have uh communication and and be in community with our community. So the final thing I'll tell you is one one of the things that we're doing in City Olympic Park is um years ago we had this weekly uh music uh series that went on uh from probably March to I'm gonna say October. That might be a little bit longer than it was, but it was called Wednesday Window. And so last year challenged the team and said, Oh, look, we need to do something in the park. Music. You know, music brings people together, and that's really you know a great thing to bring people together on. We know we don't need to you know make people spend money, we'll we'll do something on the low end. And so we uh we did Centennial Sounds, or no, I'm sorry, not Centennial Sounds. So strike that. We did Summer Sounds at Central Olympic Park last year. We did a couple of uh versions, people liked it, they remembered what we did before, and so now we've repositioned it, and we're gonna do five or six times uh starting next month in April, uh downtown sounds uh in Central Olympic Park. And so it'll be a free music series. We'll be in uh the amphitheater, uh the Southern Company Amphitheater in Central Olympic Park, uh, because music is important. Uh we may not do it on on large scale like we did in the past, but we think it's important to show off the park and and really for the community.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:24

That'll be cool. I'm excited to come check it out when that that gets going.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:28

Um I'm excited too.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:29

Kevin, thank you. Thank you for what you're doing for downtown Atlanta. And um just the the stewardship of good real estate. And I know this is a I I call it the five C's. We got the college, you got championships, conventions, concerts, absolutely and uh commerce. I think there was one other five five C's, but um this is great. Thank you for coming coming down. Appreciate you having me. Yeah, y'all uh thanks for tuning in to another episode of Sun Belt Developers. We have a lot more coming in season two. Uh we're gonna be touring Centennial Yards very soon with Brian McGowan and the team, and uh you'll have to tune in for that. But if you're looking for commercial space in Atlanta, give myself or our team a call at Cushman Wakefield and um thanks for listening.