SPEAKER_00 0:00

I'd love to jump into kind of the archives of of David. I I know you as a downtown guy. You've been very involved in so many different things. I know you've you've kind of ramped down downtown involvement and this is a lot of focus up in North Georgia. But um I'd like I'd love to wind the clock back. Like, how did you get into this hospitality kind of uh I would say you're you're an expert at it now at this point? You could probably teach college classes on how to you know do hotel and No, no, not really.

SPEAKER_05 0:31

I I know people that are experts, but well, you've got quite the resume. No, I haven't I I I I I I've done well hiring some great people, but my background, Tim, is I'm um uh I'm an engineer who has always embraced stretch assignments. And um I got into um I graduated from the University of Vermont with an engineering degree and joined uh General Dynamics Electric Boat Division in their career development program, building nuclear submarines. And while I was there, I went to night school and got an MBA. And then I decided to pivot to conventional construction and took a job in Tucson, Arizona, where I was fortunate enough to join a general contractor that was really failing. And because they were failing, they threw a young, unqualified person at all kinds of responsibility that they had no business taking on, and that was me. And I learned a lot. They did fail, and I ended up going to work for their surety. And then I had a wild hair idea, which was to uh attend MIT's Center for Real Estate, which was a one-year program that was very new back in the late 80s when this was happening, and I was in MIT's uh Center for Real Estate's fifth class, which is a joint center of their School of Business, School of Architecture, and School of Engineering, and was really intended to bring sort of the array of all disciplines that a real estate developer might touch into focus and give people some familiarity, not become not to become a lawyer, but to become a better consumer of legal services and so on and so forth. Um and and then I got into and then I went to work for a developer in the master plan community development area with an orientation to golf. And then I that was in uh Florida, and then I got uh hired to join a company that had master plan golf community activity in partnership with a PGA Tour, which is the Association of Touring Professionals, doing tournament player club master plans. And um this was in the early 90s, and the wheels came off. That was in California, just because of the economy. And just really happenstance, uh, as the wheels came off, one of the principals of the company, who was really a sports marketing guy, had was jettisoning his involvement in the real estate, but had designs on starting a sports marketing company. And and with a partner, uh got the plum assignment of handling the Atlanta Committee for Olympic Games uh top corporate sponsor marketing. So the the the program that would you know lure the Xeroxes and the and the IBMs to sponsor the Olympics.

SPEAKER_00 4:01

Yeah. And um, you're you're helping design golf courses and master plans that crashed, and then a buddy at that company said I wasn't designing.

SPEAKER_05 4:13

I I was working as a developer trying to put deals together. Okay. Well, not all over the country, but Atlanta was one of the markets that I was actively trying to develop a TPC. And were you living here in Atlanta? No, I was living in in in the South uh South Califor Southern California. Aaron Powell Okay. Okay. But anyway, it's a crazy story. I mean, no, it is a crazy story, yeah. And so the you know, that's why I it's I'm just the blinds are very blurry. So uh the principal, Tim Smith, who was former deputy commissioner of the PGA Tour and was in the Carter administration, asked me to join him in the sports marketing company as their CFO because I had a pulse and an MBA. And then to continue to try to pursue these franchise rights that that he came away from the partnership with for TPC development or affiliations with the PJ Tour. And so I moved to Atlanta and and filled that role. And um, you know, I think through our interaction with ACOG, we became very familiar with sort of the dynamics of what was happening downtown, Billy Payne's vision for Centennial Olympic Park. Separately on the sports marketing side, we were building uh relationships uh in Asia and developed a close relationship with a group out of China that was interested in uh us helping them with golf in China and was interested in investing in Atlanta with a nexus to the Olympics. And I know this sounds like a far-fledged story, but it's it's actually true.

SPEAKER_00 6:03

Aaron Ross Powell I mean, so far you've gone from nuclear submarine engineer to I don't know, like middle of the Olympics.

SPEAKER_05 6:13

I wasn't designing anything. Okay. Long story short, we ended up with Chinese partners, and this is in 1993, before it was common to do business with Chinese. Yeah. We ended up buying a strategic five-acre parcel on what we thought was likely going to be uh around the perimeter of what was we hoped would be Centennial Olympic Park. Centennial Olympic Park is is 21 acres that converted, you know, former Blight into one of the largest urban green space projects in the country. And so good things happened. All that came to fruition. We were able to buy it.

SPEAKER_00 6:57

Let me pull it up. I want to see this five acres you're talking about.

SPEAKER_05 7:01

We've got to front door of the embassy suites there to the back door of the mixed-use project anchored by the Wow, okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:12

So here Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 7:13

That five acres, three city blocks, five acres. It was three city blocks. We consolidated it. So in fact, Centennial Olympic Park was developed, and we you know, it's sort of like in California, you talk about when they have the big earthquake, you're gonna or Air Arizona, there's gonna have the big earthquake, and Arizona's gonna have waterfront property. Well, Centennial Olympic Park happened and all of a sudden we had waterfront property. And the Chinese were interested principally in investing through what was called the immigrant investor program, which was a precursor to today's EB5. Yep. And it basically allowed foreign nationals who wish to immigrate to the United States to do so by making a qualifying investment.

SPEAKER_00 8:05

And there that's like a certain dollar amount and they get a sort of taxes relief. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 8:10

The fact of the matter is this effort which we put together locally with immigration council failed. And it it failed because we weren't successful or partners weren't successful selling into China. You know, this is this is three years before Hong Kong was turned over to the PRC, so there was definitely some interest in in Hong Kong people having a plan B, you know. And missiles were flying over Taipei, and you know, there we thought there'd be a lot of interest, but for one reason or another it failed. We were then left with the property, and really uh the likely scenario was we were going to be foreclosed upon and lose the property. But I pivoted and turned my attention with the help of some l local talent to lease the property during the Olympics. And we were successful leasing the entire five acres for a lot of money, and that infused us with enough to carry the property and then fight another day, and then petitioned the city in 1997, you know, a year after the Olympic game, you know, the closing ceremonies, there was conspicuously nothing happening downtown. Like there was great activity leading up to the Olympics. Right.

SPEAKER_00 9:44

Just like the hangover of the R.

SPEAKER_05 9:46

Yeah, it was just with the uh okay, now what? You know. And so we were successful convincing the city of Atlanta to help us with a tax abatement program. And uh ultimately I was successful um conventionally financing the Embassy Suites Hotel, which was my first big development, and I did it with a team of you know, myself and one other guy. And um we couldn't get any money from Atlanta, we couldn't get any equity from Atlanta, we couldn't get any debt from Atlanta because downtown was just sort of blacklisted in terms of investment. But we got equity with our Chinese partners. I got equity with a with a predecessor company to Hilton. Uh Embassy Suites is part of the Hilton family.

SPEAKER_00 10:42

Aaron Ross Powell So you called your Chinese investors, like the partners that you had before back to get.

SPEAKER_05 10:47

Oh yeah, no, they that we partnered on 10 different deals with them.

SPEAKER_01 10:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 10:51

We partnered with them on the development of that, on the development of Centennial Park West, and the development of the p pavilion, otherwise many other things. Sorry, so you were and it wasn't it didn't it yeah, and then and then we got we got mezzanine debt out of Kuwait. Okay. And we got a conventional construction mini-perm loan out of Vienna, Virginia. So it was interesting. We finally got it done. It took it took um four years to capitalize the embassy suites. And there were a lot of naysayers, naysayers because people conventional hospitality, you know, wisdom in downtown Atlanta was you had to be on the Peachtree corridor spine. And this was not, but we observed that since the ascendance of the Georgia World Congress Center, which began in 1972, there hadn't been a single hotel developed in response to that. And the Congress Center went on to develop a phase two and a phase three and a phase four, and the Georgia Dome was developed along the way. But it was considered a a bad part of downtown. The Omni Hotel and the Omni Coliseum predated us, and the Omni Hotel did better than it it should have, sort of. And so that gave us a clue that maybe there was there was a real market there. But um despite the naysayers, the embassy suit was pretty much an instant success. Um because of its location, it's it's nexus to the Georgia World Congress Center as well as across the park to the marts. The development of the park had really eliminated one of the real impediments to people feeling comfortable in this part of town. Um and um the embassy suites is is a is a manageable size. It's 321 keys, and the average size of the many hotels that were developed downtown really oriented much more to conventions with an average room size of like 800 rooms. So for a transient traveler, more comfortable. And then downtown had not seen a new hotel delivered in 15 years, during which time, you know, there was the popularity of all suite, which is what Embassy Suite's brand is known for. So we were delivering a lot of things that were very um that hit that you know resonated with our customer base. Um so we opened that in 1999.

SPEAKER_00 13:39

And what is all suite?

SPEAKER_05 13:41

I don't think I know that. All suite means all the guest rooms are two bays. Two bays constituting a suite, a parlor and a bedroom. And so it's appealing to families because with a s with a pullout couch they can house the kids on the parlor, and mom and dad can stay in the bedroom. And then the other hallmark of an embassy suites is there's a complimentary breakfast and a complimentary manager's reception in the evening. So it's a very successful brand um for those reasons. It's known for that. But anyway, in 2005, we were very fortunate to see the opening of the Georgia aquarium. We were the first new commercial project developed on this twenty-one acre park. The aquarium really ignited the development of this necklace of tourist attractions around the park. Um it was it's it's it's expanded since its original opening, but it was followed by the World of Coke and then the Center for Civil and Human Rights. The children's museum, which is in the ground floor of of Centennial Tower there, or Museum Tower, rather, um, predates us, but then you know, the Atlanta Ferris Wheel went in, the House of Blues, and then most recently the College Football Hall of Fame. And so in 2005, we went from an above average for downtown occupancy. If downtown was doing 62% occupancy, you know, average for the year, we were at the Embassy Suites doing 65 or 66 percent. But when the aquarium opened, we went up to 78 percent. And the reason for that is that downtown has many different demand generators today, but then it really didn't have that tourist demand generator. And the tourist demand generator is is important in periods where the commercial demand generators are slow. For example, holidays. And um so we became sort of in lay terms, we went from being a five-day-a-week hotel to a seven-day-a-week hotel. And things aren't quite that rosy today, um, but anyway, it's um I think one thread that would we've would be woven through all of this is I've had incredibly good fortune. You know, a lot of happenstance, a lot of good fortune.

SPEAKER_00 16:41

Aaron Powell I mean, catching it right before the park got there. Y'all, I mean, maybe you kind of knew the park was gonna happen.

SPEAKER_05 16:47

It had been it had been announced. Uh certainly Billy Payne had had had announced his vision after the Rhomblus in Barcelona. But um it hadn't been confirmed, and as you may know, it's owned by the state, and the state legislature had to enact it. And then it was um privately funded. And so the funds had to be raised.

SPEAKER_00 17:12

Aaron Powell Hey guys, before we get back to the episode, I want to thank one of our partners, the Beck Group. Beck is a collaborative team of designers, builders, and technology experts that cover a multitude of disciplines all under one roof. Typically in a project, you have a designer and a GC, but Beck is different. Both of these disciplines are combined under one roof, so nothing falls through the cracks. This approach helps organizations rethink the way they plan, design, and build their spaces. To learn more about their work and services, visit Beckgroup.com. Now back to the show. What did y'all lease the land for? You said like what was the use during the election?

SPEAKER_05 17:45

Oh well, there were two users. Um we you we leased about two-thirds of it to the uh Olympic to to the to the Atlanta Olympic Games for to house their top sponsor village.

SPEAKER_01 18:03

Got it. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 18:04

And then we leased um the the the third block to Nike. And collectively they wrote us pretty big checks. I mean, I think it was, you know, order of magnitude, about fifty percent of what we had paid for the land. So that gave us a good pivot. It was a it was a good pivot. It was a good pivot. And then um and then my next project was um the deal that we cut with the city for tax abatement encouraged us to build residential. And I decided to build the roundly 100-unit upscale Centennial Park West condominiums, which joins with the embassy suites and offers, you know, by extension to the embassy suites all the services that the embassy suites has, like fitness pool, Roos Chris Steakhouse, made service, so on and so forth for for those residence owners that care for it. And um and that was relatively successful. We sold that out, we made a few bucks. Um it was the only it was I only had to do one condominium project to know that was not my calling, though. I mean, it's you know, having a hundred um uh discriminating customers is is quite exhausting. And um But I actually I I actually lived there, my wife and I lived there for 15 years until you know the call that my my growing family had to you know get a house with a yard and all that. So Yep.

SPEAKER_00 19:54

Yeah, that um I know that one.

SPEAKER_05 19:57

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 19:58

And we just moved. So Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 20:01

So anyway, and then I developed um I guess the next thing I developed was the Glenn Hotel, which the Glenn Hotel was was fascinating. I had designs on Where's that one? Uh go so Marietta. Yeah. It's uh there it is right there. Yeah. Okay, yeah. That's not the the best view. The the best yeah, swing around. Yeah, there you go.

SPEAKER_00 20:23

It's got that awesome rooftop.

SPEAKER_05 20:25

Right. So I had designs on, you know, one of the things about Atlanta that had attracted me, and and remember, I mean, we were basically from out of town. We we moved here from California and we didn't know what everybody else knew, which you know, downtown was no damn good, and it was never going to be any good. Well, downtown hadn't seen a hotel developed in 15 years when I developed the embassy suites. And downtown in the early 2000s had yet to participate in this growing segment of the hospitality industry called boutique hotels. I mean, obviously there's historic boutique hotels, but modern-day boutique, which were you know exploding in New York and other primary, secondary, and even tertiary cities. Atlanta hadn't seen its first modern-day boutique hotel. So I set out to find a historic building that we could execute that on. And um and the Glen Building was actually the third building that we looked at. Um turns out I was on, it was owned by the Atlanta uh Fulton County Atlanta Recreation Authority. It was part of their acquisition uh for what became Phillips Arena, tore down the Omni Coliseum and built Phillips Arena now State Farm. Um they wanted to tear the Glen down, but they were enjoined from doing that because a developer back in the eighties had had put uh Sold tax credits that created a facade easement and they were not able to tear it down. Well, anyway, it was time to sell, and I got a I got a um flyer on it because I had just developed Centennial Park West condos, and the the broker thought, well, this might be a condo, uh residential condo, or it might be a single-purpose office building, which is what it was constructed as back in the twenties. And I looked at it and I said, this could be a hotel. And so we bought the building and did a gut. It had been vacant for 20 years when we bought it, and we did a gut renovation and turned it into the Glenn Hotel, which we opened in 2026, and then um or 2016. 2006. I'm sorry. Yeah, 2006. Oh my god. Thank you for correcting me. Yeah. And then um and we had a series of restaurants. My first restaurant there, we hired a we weren't in the hotel management business back then. The first manager I hired was a manager out of Miami. And and Miami is a very active boutique hotel environment. But the thing is that every new boutique hotel is striving to do something quirkier. And we didn't, we it was a it was a mistake on my part. We didn't need to do something quirky. We just needed to be Atlanta's first and only boutique hotel. But as an expression of our quirkiness, I ended up leasing the restaurant to the bed restaurant group out of Miami. And their shtick was they served meals to you in bed. And so instead of tables and chairs, they had beds.

SPEAKER_00 23:45

Wow.

SPEAKER_05 23:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:47

Like a restaurant. Like you walk into a restaurant.

SPEAKER_05 23:49

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So we modified it a little bit. We we had a a small percentage of the whatever were actually beds. We had tables and chairs. But it turns out these guys were not good operators or good people, and they only lasted a year. And then I had a series of other failed restaurants. And it wasn't until we got into the restaurant business and and converted this as restaurant number five at the Glenn Hotel into Glenn's Kitchen, which is which is which which which we operate, has it really flourished and it's it's done great. But in 2011 or 12, sort of in the teeth of the great financial crisis, I affiliated this with Marriott's new collection of uh what they call soft brands called autograph collections. So this became a Marriott Autograph Collection. So it's the brand is the Glenn, but it's you can find it under Marriott's reservation system. And if you're a Marriott loyalist, you can use your points and so on and so forth. That anyway, it's it's done extremely well. We we've we sold it in 2018 and continue to manage it and uh have a real love affair with that. That's a real I love the rooftop. Yeah, I don't know if it's the rooftop's very cool. But that was our that was really Atlanta's first rooftop venue. I mean, it it was actually pretty innovative. It was pretty innovative um project.

SPEAKER_00 25:26

Um Yeah, I it so it kind of has this like bar that wraps around the side, and then I think this is kind of like the gathering area and kind of opens up to air.

SPEAKER_05 25:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 25:36

It's it's it's been very it's been very successful.

SPEAKER_00 25:40

So Okay, so you go to Glenn.

SPEAKER_05 25:42

And then I did then I did the mixed use project anchored by the Hilton Garden Inn, which is where Ventana's is. Yeah, right, yeah, right there. So that's that's the Hilton Gar it's 242-key Hilton Garden Inn, about 50,000 square feet of retail. And then Ventana's, which is the rooftop venue with its own entrance and identities. Yeah. And so the lesson we had learned observing the success of the aquarium as a special event venue is that meeting planners really loved that they could go to the aquarium and not have to decorate. Because of, you know, the they just show you the fish. Yeah. So we said, well, let's do ventanas, and that'll be the view will be the decoration. And so we have fantastic views. In fact, ventanas in Spanish, as you probably know, means windows. So And then I uh it was it was it was a little serendipity, but I I was uh reading uh I I was reading some stuff and I said, you know, wouldn't it be really cool to put a helipad on top of this? And damn it, I did it. And it was it was it's never made any economic sense whatsoever. Uh but it's super cool. And if you've ever taken off with a Bellejet Ranger from the top of a building, it's pretty friggin' cool.

SPEAKER_04 27:22

I'm sure.

SPEAKER_05 27:23

And so, you know, one of Ventana shticks is get married here and you know, start your honeymoon with a helicopter ride. Or, you know, like we have we have celebrities come in and you know, I mean it it's fun. Or or what's really fun is we do corporate events and we'll bring in helicopter or two, and they'll do buzz tours of downtown. So they land, you know, first of all, you got to give people a stiff drink, and then you push them on the helicopter, and then they do a little five-minute tour, go around Mercedes-Benz Stadium or whatever, and then come back and land, and then the next group gets on. It's fun. You know, it gets the blood pumping.

SPEAKER_00 28:03

Yeah. Those helicopter tours are amazing. I my wife, uh, when we were dating, she she got me like a tour we flew around Atlanta. And uh I'd like to go back. I mean, yeah. It's it's it's fun. Hey guys, before we get back to the episode, I just want to thank one of our partners, USA Cabling Technologies and Solutions. Alex Morris and his team have been incredible partners for us and actually helped us bring our studio setup to life here. And also got to give a shout out to Danny Pratt. If you're building out an office, upgrading your audiovisual systems, or need any low voltage solutions, these are the people to call. Their team is professional, reliable, and truly top-tier at what they do. To learn more, visit USACablingTech.com. Now back to the show. So when you said it didn't make sense to put the helicopter, like I mean, in my mind, a helicopter pad is like you just build it and what do you have to do? Yeah, but I don't know. It's probably expensive.

SPEAKER_05 28:54

I don't remember what the change order was to add the helicopter. It was probably three or four hundred thousand dollars. And then I just found out like it used to cost like twenty thousand dollars a year to insure it. Now it's like forty thousand dollars.

SPEAKER_04 29:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 29:07

And you know, we charge two dollars and fifty cents for somebody to to land there. I mean, it's not and whatever we charge, it's not enough. Yeah. Right?

SPEAKER_00 29:15

Yeah. But it's an amenity.

SPEAKER_05 29:18

It is that, yeah. And you know, when eventually we s first of all, our development philosophy has been generally to to develop and own forever, you know, sort of like the Warren Buffett blah, blah, blah. So we don't have the ceiling thing. Or ceiling, yeah. Steve is never selling Steve his father is, you know. Yeah. So we still own the building. I imagine when we eventually sell, which we will at some point, a successor owner might, you know, uh decommission the helipad. You know, the the W has a helipad down downtown Atlanta, and they stopped using that a long time ago.

SPEAKER_00 30:01

Got it.

SPEAKER_05 30:02

So it's just, you know, David likes to have fun.

SPEAKER_00 30:07

I mean, how often do people zip around the city on on a helicopter these days?

SPEAKER_05 30:11

I don't know how how often do we have landings or well, I mean, a lot of helicopters downtown, but uh Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:19

Well, okay. So maybe maybe they're there, they're out there. It's just expensive to operate the helipad.

SPEAKER_05 30:24

And just to ensure it. Yeah. Um and you know, we it's not a public helipad. You have to have prior permission, and we have criteria about what kind of equipment and what kind of pilot qualifications and all that. But it's definitely I mean Ventanos is a hugely successful special event venue. We do a ton of business at Ventano's, and it's it's um I'm just gonna pull up pictures here.

SPEAKER_01 30:54

Yeah. I guess that's that's the view.

SPEAKER_05 30:56

This is uh Yeah, it's it's it's it's a sp and there they there's a couple on the helipad. It's it's been one of financially one of the most successful things I've ever done. And it was um and I think the helipad I mean, I think the helipad, whether or not you use it um or whether your group uses it, is still pretty friggin' cool.

SPEAKER_00 31:27

I mean the pictures and stuff are great.

SPEAKER_05 31:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:29

These chairs.

SPEAKER_05 31:30

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:32

It's well, congrats on on that. I you know, I've heard from other people I know about developing hotels at the rooftop restaurant as uh either done as as well as the rooms have or have done better than the rest of the hotel. Well I don't know if that's the thing. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_05 31:50

The thing, you know, I mean, I'd I I would just say the restaurant business is not is not for the uh faint of heart or for those that don't know what they're doing. Right. So I'm very blessed that I have a team that really knows what they're doing. That's not me, but that's an amazing team. And um I I think it's I think, you know, we may have touched on this before, but there's so much ego that's involved in real estate development. And that's probably amplified when you get to the hospitality side of real estate development. People that, you know, want to uh add a certain cachet to their building or hotel or whatever, and end up reaching for something that sounds good, but maybe they don't know how to execute, or they're not, you know, they're not doing it well, or they're getting bad advice or whatever. So um you know, I think that's we considered opening it as a restaurant and we opted instead to have it open just as a special event venue. So it's not open unless we've sold an event. Uh whereas, for example, the Moxie, which has just been constructed and open next to us, has a rooftop uh lounge restaurant. And uh, you know, I don't know how they're doing yet, but I I've been up there. It's beautiful. Yeah, how long is that? Absolutely no. Oh, six months? Not even a couple of months. Yeah. It's beautiful. I hope they do well, but it's, you know. Uh and then somewhere along the way, I I purchased the 300 Marietta Street building, which actually has that's yeah, that's where stats and maxes and before we had lunch. That's yeah, that's right. In 1999, a Adidas purchased this building. It's about 35,000 square feet, and it was in shambles, and they lovingly uh renovated it for as their Olympic show place to do to serve three functions. The right side of the building, which is three stories, served as a dormitory-style housing for their important customers and executives and athletes because housing during the Olympics is very short supply. The middle section where you see Max is now was hospitality, where they could have functions. And then the left section where stats is was um sort of their corporate office and a showcase.

SPEAKER_01 34:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 34:33

Okay. In 1999, a couple of years after the Olympics, somebody at Adidas corporately noticed this building on their balance sheet and said, you guys need to get rid of it. And we had recently opened the embassy suites, and so you know, we were known as being active investors, developers, and we ended up foolishly buying it, but it's turned out quite well. But I mean, they're like, it's it's like I don't think this was a Harvard business school decision that was licensed out.

SPEAKER_00 35:06

Nobody's wanting you to teach a class on this one.

SPEAKER_05 35:08

C did the pants decision. Yeah. And um and then we uh just fortuitously, there was something called the dot-com boom. Yeah. And we had some and well, the bust came later, but we had we had a very reputable deep-pocketed uh sponsor of some uh accelerator that wanted to lease cool space. And so they leased about two-thirds of the building from us for a couple of years. And when the when the bust came, you know, they they made us whole, you know, with a buyout of the lease and so on and so forth. And then we had um heard the announcement that the Georgia Aquarium was being developed, and we thought that would give a lift to the demand for restaurants and whatnot, and we just decided to repurpose, reconcept the building as a restaurant row, and then set out to look for a restaurant and wasted several years dealing with a restaurateur who turned out not to be a very good person or whatever. And then, you know, I I I kid people. I think it was I think a six-pack of beer had something to do with it, but we ended up getting deciding to go into the restaurant business in a weak moment and proceeded to uh lose a lot of money for a couple of years, uh initially by uh getting in the restaurant business by hiring a third party operator. And that didn't turn out to be a good experience. Um and it wasn't until we actually hired a real talent to create and run a restaurant business that we righted the ship and um and then populated the rest of the building from stats. We did Maxes um and then twin smokers, both of those are named after my children.

SPEAKER_00 37:12

And then twin smokers?

SPEAKER_05 37:14

Yeah, where you where you had where you had lunch. Yeah, I yeah, I yeah, there's a long story there. But uh twin smokers, we we sort of look at the lay of the land and we say what what what would work well downtown? What's in what would what would what would be in demand but it's not here? And we surmised barbecue in demand because a lot of visitors to downtown and they they think of barbecue as a local thing, you know, a Georgia thing. And there really wasn't a good barbecue. And so our guys, our team only wants to do things the best way, which I think is is the right thing to do for the long term, but in the short term it it leads to additional work and expense. Um so we went to Texas to check out Texas barbecue because we realized that Georgia really didn't have much in the way of Texas barbecue. It has, you know, Southern North Carolina barbecue, Memphis barbecue. But uh so we went to the Jarrow Manufacturing Company in in Mesquite, Texas to get the creme de la creme of smokers, no backup, it's either burning wood or it's not smoking. And there was a big there was a big smoker and there was a little smoker, and we couldn't decide which, and we said, well, let's let's just get two little smokers, and then that idea evolved to, all right, let's establish a wood library and we will pair the protein to the smoke. And so we import mesquite and post oak from Texas and smoke in one smoker, named after my son Matthew, uh beef, beef brisket, beef ribs, beef sausage, and the other smoker. We use hickory and white oak out of North Carolina, and we uh smoke poultry and pork after that one's called Elizabeth. So that's the story of twin smokers. And um it's pr it's pretty good barbecue.

SPEAKER_00 39:32

That reminds me of Antico, where they you know they've got the little pizza ovens. They're all named, they have a different name to the ship.

SPEAKER_05 39:37

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's cool. And then we did um in a weak moment. I I I you have a lot of these. A lot of these. Yeah, it's uh there's a story behind every restaurant.

SPEAKER_00 39:48

I should come to you with David, you should throw some money at this venture. Hopefully hopefully catching you at a week moment. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 39:56

Anyway, I had I had uh a fr a friend who introduced me to this German and a very gregarious, great German guy, and and Wolfgang is his name. He grew up in East Germany. And after the unification, he joined the German Navy. And his last assignment was he was um uh stationed in Washington, D.C. And as he retired, he fell in love with an American, a woman, and they got married. And Wolfgang went on to a pretty successful career consulting, largely consulting uh German companies that wished to invest in the Southeast United States. But anyway, I got to know Wolfgang a couple of times, and and uh Wolfgang was organizing a trip to Germany, and he encouraged uh me to join him. And in a I anyway, I did. I joined him, my wife and I joined him, and the son of a gun had me overserved at a beer garden and and and poured his soul out to me and said that his lifelong dream was to be in the restaurant business. And would I partner with him on a German restaurant? Well, I agreed, and we have had within this building a space that would formerly lease to a to a third party, and that third party up and left in the middle of the night, and it was what so I had this vacant space, which you may be aware of the the beer garden is on the second floor. Now, that's from a retailer's perspective, that's really tough space to lease. But anyway, I came back and announced to my design and construction and restaurant team we were doing a beer garden and we needed to be open by Oktoberfest. Well, cruelly, I then found out that Oktoberfest does not start in October. It starts in September. So we this was like June, and we only had a little but anyway, De Beer Garden super successful right away. Uh inside the perimeter had no German restaurants or beer gardens that are were of note. And you know, pretty instantly we became the restaurant of choice for the local head of Porsche and and uh uh VW and you know the German American Chamber of Commerce and the Consul General. And I, you know, if there was a big soccer game, they were coming to and we all of a sudden all these German breweries took notice and we started moving the needle such that they began to export to the United States, and we began really expanding our German beer offering, and in pretty short order, we were serving more German beer than any other establishment, at least in the Southeast United States. And a very authentic Bavarian uh menu, very good menu.

SPEAKER_00 43:03

I don't think I've ever been.

SPEAKER_05 43:05

It's still Yeah, it's it's it's good. It's good. But anyway, that's probably older picture. Yeah.

unknown 43:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 43:15

Yeah, it's really good. I mean, I'm I'm um of course, you know, each one of these is like my children. I have I have nice things to say about all of them.

SPEAKER_00 43:27

Hey guys, before we continue, I just want to thank one of our partners, Corporate Environments. They're Georgia's leading full-service commercial furniture and workplace solutions providers. Whether you're building out a new office, redesigning, co-working, or managing large-scale tenor improvement projects, their team brings expertise in a full service way. Workplace strategy, interior design, project management, delivery, and installation. They've got locations in Atlanta, Birmingham, and Savannah, and they're helping businesses across Georgia create spaces that leave a lasting impression. You can learn more at corporateenvironments.com. Now back to the show. So you've Done four hotels at this point. What year did Beer Garden open up? And was it I mean this was kind of a side thread.

SPEAKER_05 44:06

Yeah, that the story. I'm gonna say 2014, maybe. Okay. Yeah, so I had four I developed four hotels downtown. We did the American Hotel in um uh 15, maybe 2015. Okay. The American Hotel, interestingly, yeah, and you found it, is is um 321 keys. It was developed in 1963 by uh Jewish dentist brothers, the Goldsteins, who had stumbled into the hotel world. They actually bought a building in Midtown Atlanta with designs on turning it into sort of a medical office building, and they were advised after they bought it it wasn't suitable for that, but it would work as a hotel, and they developed what became known as the Cabana Hotel subsequent long ago, um torn down. But anyway, they concepted this hotel, which was um was ill-advised. They got a lot of uh people that suggested once again, it's not a it's not right on the Peachtree Corridor, and it's a bad idea. And anyway, they opened it in 1963, and their hallmark was as uh as their family had been touched by the Holocaust, and they had no tolerance for uh any violation of civil or human rights. And so they opened this as a hotel that was welcoming to all. And so African Americans were welcome. And in fact, during this period of time uh was the period of time where the Milwaukee Braves were being lured to move to Atlanta, and the fact that the entire team could stay at a a a single upstale upscale hotel together is described to me as something that, you know, helped uh grease the skids for for for the team to feel good about moving here to Atlanta. And Martin Luther King, Jr. um was really a friend of this hotel. In fact, the Goldsteins were his his family's dentist. And for example, after he won the Nobel Peace Prize, there was a dinner hosted here and so on and so forth. And Andy Young was very involved. When we when we so my concept, this had this had been uh in decline for many, many years. When I bought it in 2015, it was owned by Blackstone, the big uh private equity, you know, global company, who had exercised their influence with the Hilton Hotel Company to apply a double tree hotel flag on this. And and and they got the double tree flag, but they ignored all the double tree standards. And so this hotel, you know, if there's 300 hotels ranked in the city for customer satisfaction, this was 295. I mean, it was like, you know, people would post pictures of staying at this hotel and sh holding up a towel that had holes in it, kind of thing. So we we bought it and committed to restoring it to its civil rights prominence.

SPEAKER_00 47:54

Was it always called the American?

SPEAKER_05 47:55

No. It was called it was called the Doubletree Hotel.

SPEAKER_00 47:58

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_05 47:59

And we I mean it was it was the American Hotel, and then it became a Marriott and um or a Windham. I don't even remember it. When we bought it, it was sort of this faltering Doubletree Hotel. And we convinced Hilton, uh, who we have a good relationship with, to allow us to take the big sign down and restore it to its original civil rights name, the American. And then we designed the whole thing, sort of uh tipping our hat to the 60s and to the civil rights movement and and um uh anyway. We ended up selling it um I don't know, 2019 or 2020 or whatever. Um But it was a it was a fun project. And, you know, I mean I I think the one thing that I really embrace is doing consequential projects. And I felt like this was a consequential project because of the importance of of of the hotel and the civil rights movement. And so that was fun.

SPEAKER_00 49:14

Yeah, and it's on a really cool little I don't know, square here.

unknown 49:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:21

Right. It's kind of funky street grid, but yeah. It's a great project. And I think, yeah, Radco, Norman got his hands on it. I I haven't been at it since since it's trade traded hands on the Trevor Burrus.

SPEAKER_05 49:32

Well he's he's renovated it and changed it. It became a soft brand double tree. He's now converted it to a tapestry. And we're no longer involved. Um we managed it for him for a year or two, and then he decided to go a different direction.

SPEAKER_00 49:49

All right. Well, so that's number five. And then there's a kind of a gap here between the American and then you going up to North Georgia, or maybe there wasn't a gap.

SPEAKER_05 50:00

Maybe you were No, well, along the way I developed a hotel up in Chattanooga more more or less on a fee basis. Yeah. And um we became much more active in third-party management, both on the restaurant and the hotel side. And today we have a pretty big um portfolio of hotels and restaurants in the Portornsis Corpus Christi, Texas area. We're active with a couple of hotels managing in Wisconsin uh Madison, Wisconsin. And we're in uh we were in Chattanooga and both hotels and restaurants no longer, but we're in um Knoxville and um uh anyway, we're we're active in the southeast. Um we also developed two hotels up in the central perimeter of Atlanta. We we purchased uh some distressed debt and converted a hotel at La Vista Road in 285 into the Doubletree hotel there, which we we put in a Marlowe's.

SPEAKER_00 51:10

When did you do that project?

SPEAKER_05 51:12

Uh we opened it in 2008.

SPEAKER_00 51:14

Aaron Powell I don't know if you remember this, but you and I were on a panel, a Biznow panel. This might have been five years ago. Okay. There was this guy, Graham, who was a tax guy. It was on perimeter. It was on the perimeter market. Okay. And so I was curious what the timing was or why they maybe they called you because you had a project that was about to land.

SPEAKER_05 51:32

Well, I know we then more recently, um I developed we we had an opportunity to buy an off-market site uh adjacent to St. Joe's Hospital in Pill Hill, which is, you know, two 285 and Peachtree Dunwoody.

SPEAKER_04 51:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 51:52

And so we developed the Hyatt House. The Hyatt House is is Hyatt's upscale. Yeah, it's right on the corner of Lake Hearn and Yep, right there.

SPEAKER_01 52:05

There you go.

SPEAKER_05 52:06

Um, we built it. Oh, you built there. Yeah, I I developed that. I opened it in like 2023. Okay. So we actually completed the development during COVID. And that's the only hospital, that's the only hotel within walking distance of that hospital complex.

SPEAKER_04 52:28

Really?

SPEAKER_05 52:29

Yeah, and it also sits next to Marta. Um, and so, you know, it's got a lot of it's a strong extended stay brand, Hyatt House is, and it has uh some real locational advantages. Um Marta, you see the medical center Marta to the right there, and that that's a big parking deck that's in between the Hyatt House and Marta. But um and then North Side Hospital on this side of you know, Screen Down, and then St.

SPEAKER_01 53:05

Joe's uh Screen North. Yeah. So Pill Hill.

SPEAKER_00 53:11

I know Altmore, they're planning on doing something bigger over there, and then obviously you got the apartments, you got High Street, this kind of Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 53:19

And I also developed, actually I forgot, um the Hyatt Regency just up here? Right, yeah, at perimeter. Yeah, that's the Hyatt Regency. You have your that's the Hyatt Regency. I did that on a fee basis for General for an affiliate of General Electric Pension Trust. And basically they came to us and they said we have uh the special event venue restaurant called Villa Cristina, and we're trying to sell out the rest of our commercial lots for office development, and we think it would be beneficial to have a proper hotel instead of what effectively they had, which was a hotel without rooms, you know, restaurant special event. And so we negotiated with Hyatt and um ended up doing that. And um uh honestly, the the the concept was sound. Um uh our, you know, we I that's what I I led with a Hippocratic oath, right? First do no harm. Because Villa Cristina was a phenomenal success. I mean, it was a wedding factory. And it was the sort of central perimeter, you know, uh go-to destination center. And what we wanted to do was to add hotel rooms, but then give our customer three choices. They could have a traditional Villa Cristina experience. You want to get married at Villa Cristina, right? Or you could have a hotel, like a pure corporate Hyatt Hotel experience, or you could have the combined experience. And you know, the thing about we we ended up developing it, but we were just getting into the hotel management business. And so, you know, corporately the our client, the General Electric Pension Trust, wanted to to understandably, they wanted to hire a manager that was seasoned and so on and so forth. But then you know, hoteliers think everything's a hotel, right? So they couldn't stand the idea of the hotel not being what it's all about. And they they really um uh diluted and eventually snuffed out the Villa Cristina brand. And um and so that great advantage that they had, that the asset had was sort of lost, sort of squandered away to pride and to stupidity. Yeah. But you know.

SPEAKER_01 56:02

Well, cool.

SPEAKER_05 56:04

This is Yeah, so I've to I've developed a few things.

SPEAKER_00 56:07

Just a few. Hey guys, before we jump back into the episode, I just want to thank one of our main partners, Sanji High Roads. David Sanji was actually a guest in season one and has been a strong supporter of the podcast ever since. Sanji High Roads is a commercial real estate development company responsible for nearly three billion dollars in development projects. If you're here in Atlanta, you've probably seen some of their work already, including the high-centric buckhead, that's the hotel right behind Linux, and the new Howell apartments right on Howl Mill. One of their most exciting projects right now is the expansion of the Savannah Convention Center. It's a $400 million development that's been years in the making. If you're interested in development opportunities or want to learn more about their work, visit SanjiHighroads.com. Now back to the conversation. Okay, putting all this to the side, I really want to get your take on like there's developers that have done really well, and there's a lot of people that have lost their shirt and have not. And you've definitely performed well in some markets that people have said to not, you know, dip your toe in. Um I'm just curious what your take is. Like, how did you succeed where other people didn't? Is it a contrarian sort of investor take or from an operational standpoint? I'm curious what you all do differently. I don't know. Baby brag on yourself. Like how how did you think that's a good idea?

SPEAKER_05 57:23

No, I look, I go back to something I said before. I'm inc I'm incredibly lucky. I've had incredible good fortune. And the other thing I would say is that until more recently, I was way too much of a cowboy, w willing to take, you know, tremendous risk.

SPEAKER_00 57:45

And um like what drove you there though?

SPEAKER_05 57:50

Like was it just Well, first of all, I mean I I tr I I mean I c I came to Atlanta with, you know, $2.50 in my pocket. I d like we developed we bought we with with the Chinese partners, we bought that land and then ultimately developed the embassy suites with just sweat equity. You know, I d I mean I famously, famously when we when our lender on the embassy suites required uh you know, personal guarantees for loan completion and so on and so forth, which is quite normal. And and my partner, the principal of the my predecessor company and I were going to be the guantors, and like we didn't have balance sheets that were meaningful, right? And so famously, um my my partner went back and amended his financial statement to add his daughter's horse. I mean, it was like I don't know if that made any difference at all, but but the the point is break all the piggy banks. So when you don't have it, when you don't, you know, you don't have a list. You don't have a big, you know, I was uh I I was able to win the trust of investors and um uh lenders, and then you know, I was like failure was not an option. Like I was gonna do whatever it took, and I did. And it and it but I I mean in terms of risk, you know, you know, it's like Janice Joplin, it's like nothing to lose. Like I mean, like, okay. I mean, I w I was reckless about it. I mean, I was I was I take I take you know taking people's money or borrowing money very seriously. Yeah. So and then over time, I guess I became a little more uh a little better at understanding and managing risk. And um but but you know, the th the the thing about uh some of our success in Atlanta really was just leveraging the blind spots that Atlantans had. I mean, to to repeat, like the Embassy Suites was the first new-built hotel downtown in 15 years. It was the first hotel built in response to the ascendants of the Georgia World Congress Center as the fourth largest and most active exhibition and conference center in the country.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:34

So when you remove that kind of preconception, you're just like by the numbers, and just if you just like the raw facts.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:41

And plus, Centennial Olympic Park was going to erase one of the biggest impediments uh uh to development in the area, which was this blight. And so but down pe people from Atlanta I mean, we all we all have our biases and our preconceived. So I guess one of my one of my um attributes was being from downtown, so to speak. You know, I I was willing to look at things with fresh eyes and then observe that Atlanta had yet to see a boutique hotel ever developed and or a rooftop venue. And these aren't new ideas, but they were new to Atlanta. And then, you know, the the story of Restaurant Row and you know giving the people who were now gonna be more actively coming to Atlanta through the necklace of tourist attractions around Centennial Olympic Park, you know, a place to gather and dine and and uh you know, my mantra used to be because we when we did the embassy suites, we did a very strategic deal leasing the primary restaurant to Roos Chris Steakhouse. And so people would come to um a conference in Atlanta and go to the Georgia World Congress Center, but then s find a hotel room and a restaurant in Buckhead. And my mantra w at that time was build it and they will stay. You know, it was like give people coming to the to the Georgia World Congress Center a convenient room and a and a decent restaurant, in the case of Bruce Chris, you know, a great restaurant. So it's not rocket science, it's just it's just, you know, and then you know, fast forward what I've done up north in terms of um, you know, I mean, p the thing about downtown Atlanta as well as now North Georgia is people really wanted to succeed. I mean, we always had sort of the wind to our back. Like if we did something positive, um, we got favorable press and people glommed onto it and they were willing to try it and so on and so forth. And similarly, up in North Georgia, as I mentioned before, the Dillard House, our current sort of passion project up there, was failing, but it was an it's an important institution, and people uh, you know, lamented that decline and they and they want it to succeed. Yeah. And uh, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:32

Somebody's finally doing something like that. Yeah, no. I mean, and so that's a feel-good, you know, because what what like what keeps you motivated to I mean there's it's not like there's no risk and obviously your time and your resources to, you know, continue to invest in in projects. And I'm just I'm curious like what still gets you up out of bed and and you know, pressing forward.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:56

Well, I I I I yeah, my posture with regard to risk has evolved. Yeah. And um but you know, I've I mean I've thought a lot about retirement, and in fact, I am I consider myself semi-retired, a because I have such a phenomenal executive team that really does all the driving, heavy lifting, you know, they I mean, they and better than I could. They're all specialists at the respective areas of hotels, restaurants, finance. Um and B, I mean, I if I think about my career, I have stumbled on, or maybe in some cases selected projects that I can feel so good about. I mean, we we would never undertake a project that we couldn't be proud of. You know, the American Hotel, what we were trying to accomplish there, and I think largely accomplished with the civil rights movement or or sort of a um tipping our hat to that. Um what the creation of uh the Lucky Marietta District now called Centennial Park District has done to really call out the special destination that the area around Centennial Olympic Park represents in terms of, you know, world-class, uniquely Atlantean, great and comfortable places to visit and stay, and so on and so forth, right? So um I feel w we were a part of concepting that brand position for the area, but also um, you know, we've we've delivered um facilities, assets, amenities that really bolster that and um that really legitimize that. And so anyway, so I'm going to continue to look selectively for projects that I can really feel great about. And you know, the current one, as I mentioned, is the Dillard House.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:15

But um Maybe there's more. Maybe there's another one.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:21

Maybe there's more. I did mention that I just turned 70. And um still got gas in the tank. Yeah, I still got young kids to send to school, I guess. So yeah. Cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:35

What is your take on all the stuff that's happening across the street? Centennial in the Centennial Yard. Centennial Yard. We got South Downtown, you got overground Atlanta. I think it's amazing.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:46

I mean, I I think um You know what we were able to do was was one small step after another, and it was very organic at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:00

And in in sort of concert with what Bernie Marcus and and Ted Turner, you know, Ted Turner's decision to to keep the arena and the teams downtown was huge, and Bernie Marcus's decision to to locate the aquarium and all, you know, that and so we sort of were did a lot of stuff on the shoulders of of those great uh leaders and f really philanthropists. Um It'd be hard to hard to do it again in any kind of scale unless you had very deep pockets. And so, you know, Centennial Yards and s and South Downtown, I mean, those there's deep pockets behind that. And so patient and smart, really smart pockets. And so I think it's fantastic. Um you know, it's it's the realization of a vision that's existed for a long time with regard to long time.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:07

The Gulch.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:08

The Gulch or what Newport had in mind for South Aaron. Did you know Olaf?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:15

Did you get to know them?

SPEAKER_05 1:08:16

I didn't I didn't. But um I think it's fantastic. I think it's fantastic. And and I can envision David company coming, for example, um you know, feeling very much uh it's it's a passion project for him, like his his next thing. I mean, he's done so many great things in his career, and this is new and different and next, and um so um and Tony Ressler, I mean wow, I mean that's that's amazing. I mean it's it's amazing, but it's only possible because in my opinion, because they have huge financial resources and good for them. And and the and they're gonna make it good for us. Glad to make it they're gonna make it special and wonderful and uh and a big draw. And yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:15

And um I can't wait to check out Cosm. They've got I don't know if you saw that picture. Somebody posted this picture. There's like a bamboo forest inside. Have you gone inside yet? No. We're doing we're doing a video on kind of like the the final update before the World Cup. Uh we're gonna go, I think it's like May 1st, we'll be out there. Awesome.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:33

I know it's gonna be fantastic. And uh And you know, we were talking earlier about Cygnia. Um and and when you when you would when you drop in a lot of new, call it supply. Supply meaning, you know, residential or hotel or restaurant or event venue. Um it's first of all, it's when you when you're new, you're the new shiny object, right? Right. Um and so that does cannibalize some business. I mean, so we'll probably see some I mean, I still own significant assets uh downtown, and you know, we'll probably see some reduction in demand for us, but long term, you know, it's like the new 970-room Cygnia hotel. Ultimately it's gonna draw a lot more demand because of i it the enhancement of uh the proposition uh to come to the Georgia World Congress Center, the additional bookings that are come to the Congress Center now that there's a first-class hotel right next to Building C.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:54

Attached. And so Yeah, I I hear the the book they're like booked the next ten years for or at least they're booking ten years out at uh at the Congress Center.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:06

So um And that we had so we had Kevin Duvall on and we were we were trying to I mean he was sharing yeah, they're they're looking at a couple of different things here between the International Plaza and then like what do you do with the backyard? Yeah. Like could you do another expansion to the culture center and lots of but I mean yeah, you you're in the thick of it. Y'all are in such a good spot.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:30

Yeah, and and you know, when we developed the embassy suites and Centennial Park West, we purposely kept those buildings at about eight stories. So that the what you see that where the parking is along Marietta Street, that is a phenomenal development site.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:50

Oh, this little site.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:51

Yeah, no, it's it's about an acre and a quarter. And we've we've looked at doing several developments. It's not going to be developed by me because um because some of the You're hanging out on the farm now. I'm hanging out on the farm. Yeah. But a developer will buy eventually buy that parcel from us and build something that's tall, and probably the first eight stories will be parking, and then the first occupied story will be above the embassy suites or Centennial Olympic Park, and it'll look across at uh at the park and the skyline of the city, and it'll be tremendous.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:35

Are you all marketing this, Pat's eye, or just just when the right partner comes?

SPEAKER_05 1:12:39

Well, no, we we're fielding we field the interest all the time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:44

We're not actively marking any I'll marketing it, but one other question I've been kind of chewing on since you've shared the story. Was any of this a part of Centennial Olympic Park? Like, no. Did they they didn't they drew the line at where these roads were and they were like you don't need to bite off the road?

SPEAKER_05 1:13:01

We encouraged him not to uh Well I mean it was an active discussion when the park was being planned.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:12

I'm not a geometrist, but like I mean that would have been kind of like a clean shape, you know. I was like, man, you really got in and just carved out this perfect little corner. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:23

Maybe yeah, they didn't even that was well but it we it was a win-win. I mean you know, the reason why there were a lot of reasons why the Atlant that why Atlanta wanted the Olympics, and one of them was to for the legacy of the Olympics to anure to the future, right? And so, you know, I I think Billy Payne and and and uh others involved in the Olympics are very happy that there's been this um development around it, uh including the things that I've developed. And of course, you know, the the the aquarium and the world of Coke and so on and so forth. So Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:14

Are you you're friends with Billy? We've been trying to get him on the podcast.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:17

Um I can't say I'm friends with him, but I you know, I I know him. Yeah. Um If you're listening, Billy, we're coming for you. Okay. I think he should be on the podcast. I think that's phenomenal. You know, he um it was Centennial Olympic Park. I mean, he's credited with the idea and and it was a great idea, but it's typical Billy. Like the he's able to advance these ideas into reality, which is not many people can not many people can do that.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:46

So Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:48

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:49

Well, cool, man. Um what else can I ask you about? I mean, you've you've shared a lot and you've done a lot in your career from working on submarines to developing basing hotels and farming.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:01

No, I've had a I've had a I've had a uh you know, I would say I I've given my I so I have young, relatively young children. I have, as I mentioned before, a 19-year-old college freshman and then twin high school freshmen. And I've had conversations with all of them reflecting on my background. And and one of the main messages is, you know, I have really benefited from sort of gravitating towards the stretch assignments, the stretch goals, the doing the hard thing. And you can't possibly connect the dots. You can't possibly say, well, if I do this, then but invariably good things will happen. And uh I was really I I mean, I had this pep talk with my kids over the Christmas holiday this year, and and son of a gun, they were kind of maybe the they were listening. So my my uh freshman college guy says, um, you know what? I think I'm gonna switch from business to uh to a to a major in engineering. And it's like, wow, great. He's well qualified to do it. It's a lot harder. It is. Right? Yeah, a lot more rigorous. And um my 15-year-old son with some encouragement decided to uh add another sport to his repertoire and take on wrestling. Now I have no idea how that's gonna benefit him, you know, five or fifty years from now, but I'm sure it is. I'm sure it is. And so when I reflect on my, you know, I I um I took time off between college and and uh high school and I started my own business. And in college, I was very active in a student-run volunteer ambulance service and ultimately got involved in the governance of it and ultimately became the head of it and went to work in this very challenging, heavily union unionized nuclear shipyard supervising uh workers. Um I don't know how that, you know, um helped shape me, but I th I just think that um doing the doing the hard thing, doing things that that coax you out of your comfort zone um is just really good. It's really healthy. And I encourage young people to do that. And I look back and I feel very fortunate that I had the the opportunities or the inclination or you know, whichever was uh more prevalent for that particular moment.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:56

Um stretch, stretch yourself, stretch goals, yes, something that's not right.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:04

So anyway, so that's my story.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:08

Dave, I really appreciate you coming down. My pleasure. You didn't have to come very far, but No, I didn't. No, this was uh this was easy. But I didn't.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:15

But thank you. Well thanks. I enjoyed it, Tim. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:18

Yeah, man. Um well y'all, thanks for tuning in to another episode of Sunvel Developers. We've got a lot more coming and uh till next time.