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Speaker 1 0:00

Sumbelt Developers is brought to you by Northspyre. Here's what Northspyre does. On a development project, things become true long before they become visible. A vendor mentions a delay in a meeting, a cost assumption quietly breaks. Weeks later, it finally lands in the forecast. And by then, the cheap fix is gone. NorthSpire was founded by a real estate developer to close that gap. Budgets, forecasting, draw management, scheduling, vendor and bid management portfolio analytics, one platform, and it's all connected. Teams cut manual work by up to 80%, and leadership sees the whole portfolio in real estate instead of waiting on month-end reports. Northspire has facilitated more than $500 billion of projects. And every customer works with a real estate transformation consultant. That's an actual industry person and not a support queue. If you're interested, visit Northspyre.com. Again, that's NorthSpyre.com. Now back to the show. Hey everybody, welcome back to Sunbelt Developers. We have just wrapped up our conversation with Kasim Reed, and it was an incredible conversation at that. Kasim had an amazing run as the mayor of the city. So the conversation covers really all the deals that Cassim was able to pull together. He had uh an immense impact on the Mercedes-Benz Stadium, the Gulch Centennial Yards, uh, the rehab of the Atlanta Hawks State Farm Arena, the Beltline Project. What else did we cover? We covered the Porsche headquarters. It just goes on and on. Colony Square. Um, he just had an incredible run as a mayor over the eight years that he was in office. And um, one of the things I I think you'll find interesting is some of the behind-the-curtain conversations about high speed rail to Savannah and just hearing how his thought process was there. And um, my my personal favorite was him talking about the day in the life of a mayor. And I think he he said he did over 4,500 speeches while he was in office. Uh, pretty incredible. So he's got an autobiography on the way that is wrapping up here. And um if you could, while you're listening to this episode, if you could drop us a review on either Apple or Spotify podcast, that would help us out a ton. Thanks and enjoy the show. Hey guys, welcome back to Sunbelt Developers. My name's Tim Wright. I'm a broker at Cushman and Wakefield.

Welcome to Sunbelt Developers with Kasim Reed

Speaker 1 2:20

Today we've got Mayor Reed in the house with us. Mayor. How are you doing? Good to see you. Welcome down. I I'm really happy you had some time.

Speaker 2:28

And uh I'm surprised you have time with the new baby. I know, yeah, yeah. Congratulations.

Speaker 1 2:33

My wife is is really holding down the fort and um thank you. And um, for those of y'all hearing that, uh Casim and I ran into each other at the hospital. I probably looked like a bum. I had like I don't know, we were we were there for a couple days. Yeah, yeah, had had my sweatpants on, a sweatshirt. And um fortunately it's this one a lot smoother than the first one. We were there for about two days and got home and uh little girls doing good. So congratulations. Yeah, thank you. Thank you so much. Um well let's just dive in, man.

Speaker 3:02

What what

What Kasim Reed is doing after serving as mayor

Speaker 3:03

are you up to these days? Um well this week I was just announced as the inaugural scholar um at Penn at in their public policy institute. Yeah, I saw that. Uh so they have two mayors, a Republican and a Democrat, uh, that are launching uh an institute that really focuses on transferring knowledge that you gain from running a city and allowing students to benefit from that, and then studying issues that you took on as mayor um with the support of Penn researchers. So um it's been good. So I'll be doing that this semester. And then prior to that, um obviously uh I was a partner at McDermott and then was asked to write an autobiography, which I'm finishing up with Simon and Schuster. So I've I've had a pretty busy life. That's a lot.

Speaker 1 3:53

Yeah, I know McDermott, we're we're in the same building up at 1180, and I'd I think I've seen you here and there in passing. But

Writing his autobiography

Speaker 1 4:00

um how is it writing a book or an autobiography?

Speaker 4:03

My goodness, it's definitely I wouldn't do it again. But I do think that um that it's a blessing to be able to write your own story.

Speaker 2 4:12

Yeah.

Speaker 4:12

Um, certainly with um with probably the most important publisher uh in the United States. And so when that opportunity came, that was something that I couldn't resist.

Speaker 2 4:22

Yeah.

Speaker 4:22

So I'm having a ball. The thing I find about writing a book is when you write about different periods of your life, you really go there. And that was something that I didn't appreciate. So you, you know, I was writing about a period of my time of of how I spent the summers in Spartanburg, South Carolina, and I used to eat pot pies. But wouldn't you know I went and found me some pot pies? So I started eating this food that I would normally never touch. But I after I had memories of my childhood, um, you know, I went and wanted to wanted to taste the pot pie again. So there are all these experiences uh that since I've been writing, I've revisited uh from my childhood to the present. And then now to be at to be at Penn on campus with you know some of the brightest students in the United States uh is just riveting. So that's where I started my Monday and then came back uh to to do our interview today. Very cool.

Speaker 1 5:16

Yeah. So your your writing process, is it I know some people will say I can only do two hours in a day, or you sit down and grind out eight-hour stretches or Yeah.

Speaker 5:26

So I have days when I'll do maybe four or five hours. Um because I write with the legal pad. Okay. So I'm not a You're not even dictating. I I would think technically proficient guy. I'm a I'm a yellow legal pad guy. And then I have strong hands guys. And then I have I have someone that then converts it for me. So that's kind of my process. I think it helps me think better. Yeah. It helps me fill out ideas. It's very easy to go back and add because as you write, sure, um, more comes to your memory. So you know? Yeah, I've I've always been curious like that.

Speaker 1 6:03

You gotta do it.

Speaker 6:04

Yeah. Uh it's uh I mean you can write a book about the visitors you've had uh on your pod. And then I have

Kasim Reed’s podcast and lessons from interviewing people

Speaker 6:10

a pod called How to How to Run a City. Yeah to really run a city. Tell me about that. How did that get? Did I do well? The Philadelphia citizen invited me to to to speak at their annual Ideas You Can Steal conference. And their main event was myself and Michael Nutter. And Michael Nutter was the mayor of Philadelphia, and we were friends, and then we had an event that was really successful in Philadelphia. And so the Philadelphia Citizen, which is run by a guy named Larry Platt, did not have a podcast at that time. And so we thought that it would really be interesting to have Larry and uh mayor from the Northeast and the mayor of the most important city in the South do a pod together. And so we typically interview the leading mayors in the United States of America. I mean, you name a mayor, they've probably been on our pod. So and it also, you know, it keeps that part of you that loves politics and still is interested and curious and wants to know what's going on in cities, it allows that to allows that to feed, feed it. What kind of like what you're doing with with with with your podcast. Yeah. I mean because you're in the business and then you're you have a podcast that allows people to to go to a place, which is how how I found found you. Yeah, man. That's that's good conversations.

Speaker 1 7:31

That's been fun. I'm curious

What makes a great mayor

Speaker 1 7:32

what what have you learned from I mean, how many of y'all done? That's a lot.

Speaker 7:36

We've done in two years. Yeah. So we've got we got a good amount. Yeah. I mean what I've learned is I think that cities and the people in cities are really changing, and the population of cities is changing faster than people realize. I think that people are missing how cities are really becoming the place of choice. They've long been the center of GDP in the United States. I mean, more than 70% of GDP comes from our metros. But now I think that they're just becoming the place of choice for all of your life. Just live, work, play? Is that I mean, I think yeah. I mean, I I think you know, there was a time when folks were were more suburban oriented. I think a lot more folks are raising their children in cities. And what does that mean?

Speaker 3 8:32

Yeah.

Speaker 8:32

What's it look like to have a large population of children? Um, what's it look like to have a really diverse group of people in a city? Yeah. How do they get along? Uh, how do people who've been in a city forever um adjust and and and how do people who are moving in adjust to the people who have been there the entire time? So all of these issues are issues that mayors have to deal with every single day. And so to the extent that our show is municipally based, and so to the extent that we can bring in leading lights um and have a conversation and other folks can come in and get ideas is something that we enjoy doing very much. Because most mayors have a finite amount of time and a finite clock.

Speaker 3 9:16

Yeah.

Speaker 9:16

So to the extent that you see another mayor who's competent and capable and talent execute on a vision, it's really very easy to call them up and they'll share with you um pretty easily their own experience. And so that's something we try to facilitate.

Mayors who are doing innovative work

Speaker 9:32

Trevor Burrus, Jr.

Speaker 1 9:32

Who do you feel like is just really crushing it as a mayor?

Speaker 9:36

I think that um Rasbaraka in Newark, New Jersey is probably one of the most innovative mayors in the United States. I mean, if you look at what's going on in Newark, the investment that would have gone to New York that's now going to Newark, um, the increase in population, the reduction in crime in Newark, the changing perception and reputation. I think um Raz Baraka is one of the leading lights right now. That's yeah. What's it like? What's the day in the life of mayor? Man, I think that is probably the third best job in the world. You know, there's president, there's vice president, mayor. Yeah. So um it is a job that from the time your eyes open, um, there are 16 to 17 different issues with very different people that you're going to experience before the time your eyes close. And so it is one of the most stimulating uh jobs that any human can have. And when you're doing it in your hometown, uh, it is just deeply moving because when you're interacting with people, you're interacting with the folks that saw the your whole life. They've been around for the whole movie. There's that woman from your church who sees you in a grocery store who remembers you when you're playing football in the street. There's that teacher who helped you get back on the right track when you were having difficulty in math or in English or in algebra. And so all of these people are a part of the community and they have a real piece of you. The special quality about uh mayors, which is why I think local politics still remains, local politicians remain more popular than national, than state and federal politicians, certainly federal politicians. It's because you have a piece of that person and they're close to you and you can see them and you can walk up to them. I mean, I've been in a grocery line and have uh had a woman tell me that I had bought too many Coca-Cola or that I needed to switch to a Diet Coke or to tell me to get an unsweetened tea. I mean, yeah, really, the the lady in front of me in line is looking in my groceries. Yeah, yeah. Telling me what I need to do in order to be a healthier person. And it's doesn't it's not offensive because it comes from a place of care.

Speaker 2 12:03

Yeah.

A day in the life of a mayor

Speaker 12:04

So I mean, it's just the best job. I mean, you wake up, you meet with a lady whose water, a light bill, is a few days from being cut off. You 30 minutes later, a meeting meeting with a CEO who is moving a Fortune 500 to the city of Atlanta and wants to map out how to do it. That's your 930. That has to be confidential. Later, you're on the phone with a billionaire football team owner or basketball team owner talking through the issues related to their franchise. You get up and you go and do a lunch where you maybe give three different speeches during lunch because a lunch is 12 to 2. You can be someplace at 1215, you can be someplace at 1245, and you can close a lunch at 1.15. You then go back to your office. There's a little kitchen next door to the mayor's office, they feed you like a farm animal. So as opposed to you stopping and having a normal lunch, they'll put food in this small kitchen area by the mayor's private office. And you'll stand up, you'll eat, and then the calendar rolls. And at about six o'clock, I would shower and change clothes for the night. Jeez. So you work for the day and then you switch because in the evening, you have a whole set of events where you are a part of the event. Wow. And so you typically have 45 minutes to do that. You do three to four uh public events, meaning a charity, an NGO, a corporate event, uh recruitment dinner, that puts you at like 10. And then if you're really good at it, you do two stops in neighborhoods that you don't live in and just stop in and have an iced tea or something light because it allows people to feel closer to you. Sure. And then you get in the car and go home. You normally, you normally hit the driveway about 10 30 or 11 o'clock, and then your team drops you off at the door. So that happens for about with me, it was six days a week. Now I blocked my Sundays completely.

Speaker 3 14:26

Sure.

Speaker 14:27

Um, for church and for fellowship and to spend time with my family. Um, but that was that was my my pace. I think I think my staff counted it up. When we were done after eight years, I had done more than 4,000 events. Wow. Yeah. So that's what's been that's what it's like.

Speaker 1 14:45

Hey, real quick, if you have a growing company with constantly changing real estate needs, please give me a call. My team and I work with groups across the country on finding new office spaces and warehouse space. I put my personal contact info in the show notes below and we'd be happy to chat. Now back to the show. I'm

Balancing Public and Private Life

Speaker 1 15:00

not gonna lie, that kind of stresses me out. Like if you needed a break or I mean you have a good team that can pivot or that's just like how like energy, like how are you? Maybe that's more thing.

Speaker 15:12

Okay. You just go. Because when you're the mayor, there is no substitute to you. I mean, if somebody has a gala and you're coming to do something at a gala, there is no I have a call. So when you're functioning, I mean, most people who are going if you were going to see the mayor, it it's typically taking you 60 to 90 days to make that happen. Get on his calendar and go through the process and set it up. So what happens if I cancel? Maybe another sixty or ninety days after that. So and and in addition to that, the person is owed the best version of you.

Speeches as a mayor and public speaking

Speaker 2 15:54

Yeah.

Speaker 15:56

Right? So so if you've waited 120 days to see me for 15 minutes, which is the typical time, right? You deserve that 15 minutes, and you deserve me to be as good as I am capable of being in that 15 minutes. Yeah. Or 30 minutes if you um if the mayor decides to push it.

Speaker 1 16:16

So how did from like uh I'm I'm so curious. I I mean I I take, you know, eight or nine pills every morning for supplements and stuff, but like how do how

The Coca-Cola and Pepsi Story

Speaker 1 16:25

do you? I did Coca-Cola and water. That was it. That was that that was the fuel.

Speaker 16:28

Yeah. That was wow. Yeah. Yeah. Somebody put a Pepsi in my hand and my executive protection team tackled the portal. And he was trying to be nice. But he walked up and put a Pepsi in my hand, and I mean everybody just totally freaked out. Yeah. That's it. It was a wild day.

Speaker 1 16:45

So 4,000 events. What about speech and from so you have a speechwriter and speechwriting team? Yeah. And there's there's I know there's certain politicians that they go no notes and I think it was Andrew Young, wasn't that his thing? I mean, yeah.

Speaker 16:58

But I mean, even if you go no notes, I I did that a lot and like to do it, you still read the speech that they write. Yeah. Because if you're showing up to an occasion, you need the basic facts of the occasion. Yeah. You know, who are you honoring? Why are you there? Um, how did this get on my calendar? Who was the person that asked for it? So when the mayor's office, you have a team that handles your yes and a team that handles your no's. Right? Because you're typically getting between 200 and 300 requests per month. So if you wanted to fill up every single bit of your time, you could fill it up. I just saying yes. Yeah. So and so we used to have a map so that we could make sure that our yeses were were going throughout the city. They were strategic, yeah. It made sense. Yes. That's incredible. Yeah. Giving the people a lot of game today.

Speaker 1 18:02

Yeah. So

Entering Politics and Running for Mayor

Speaker 1 18:04

from running the campaign to getting in office. Yeah. I'm always curious about that, even from from all levels of politics, if you're president or mayor or whatever. Yeah. From from when you're you're running for office to when you get in office, what's that first couple weeks like? They're bringing you up to speed.

Speaker 18:23

I mean, it's it it if you're normal, it's probably the happiest you've ever been in your life. Yeah. The relief Because I ran from mayor it took two years. And I ran from mayor for 18 months. So um I was not well known. So I had an enormous amount of work to do. And when I ran from, I was 39 years old. And I felt that part of the reason I was going to win because there's an element of physicality to campaigning that I that I felt was an advantage. I didn't need sleep. I could campaign nonstop. I went door to door. I could physically see more people than the other people who were trying to run for mayor. Wow. And so I believe that physicality is a real lost art in politics. And it is um it is the part of politics that is something that you have in your control. So for me, it was the happiest period of my life. I mean, uh I met Ambassador Young when I was 13 years old. He when when I was 20 years old, I was gonna go and take a job with at Time Warner in New York with Dick Parsons, who I met on Howard's board. It's funny that we're in the CNN Center today because he used Time Warner used to own CNN.

Speaker 2 19:40

Yeah.

Speaker 19:41

And so Ambassador Young took me aside and said, You need to come home. Atlanta's gonna need a mayor like you. And 20 years later, um, they came and told me that I I had won, and Ambassador Young was sitting on the couch with me at the Hyatt when they told me that I had won. Wow. So I think I was the second youngest mayor in the history of the city.

Speaker 1 20:04

That's incredible.

Speaker 20:05

Yeah. So so I mean, that's what you're feeling during that time. So you're really not tired, you're really not exhausted. Everything is invigorating, and you know, I took over in 09 and in 10. I was who in 10, it was the worst economy in 80 years. Yeah. So that was the the middle of a massive foreclosure crisis across the country. And so it was um it was a time where when you you just felt like you needed to be the best version of yourself. And then your team, you know, it really only takes 21 people to make a mayor. Right. It's not a big group of people. When you decide that you're gonna be mayor of a city, the people who actually make it happen is a really small group of people. And as a person who's interviewed probably 30 to 40 mayors, that's typically been the story of those folks as well. You get in a living room somewhere, you talk about your ideas and what you feel, and then hopefully you have the personal capacity to persuade somebody to come along with you in the journey. And there is no better relationship builder than political campaigns because they're like startups. Sure. This is your candidates to product, you're building this thing, it didn't exist before. If you're successful, it gets shut down. You move on to governing, yeah, but it's a startup.

Speaker 2 21:40

Yeah.

Speaker 21:40

Very much so. Wow. It's a SWAT team.

Speaker 1 21:43

You got your your ride or dies.

Speaker 21:45

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 21:46

That's amazing.

Speaker 21:47

And then during the course of running, you're going to meet some people along the cour along the way whom didn't know you, who work harder for you than people who you've known for 30 years. Yes. That's cool. And so it's a it's a very emotional. And then there'll be people that you've known for 30 years who don't help you. Won't send you a dime. And here you talk you are best friends. Yeah. And then you meet this stranger, and when they're not at work, they're in a campaign headquarters picking up the phone, calling other other voters and citizens, telling them that you're the best thing that ever happened. Yeah. It's amazing. I would commend the job to anybody that can get it.

Speaker 1 22:30

Yeah.

Speaker 22:31

That's incredible. Yeah.

Speaker 1 22:32

What was your first objective or first obstacle you had to tackle?

Speaker 22:37

I mean,

Atlanta’s Biggest Challenges and Kasim's objectives

Speaker 22:38

our first objective, I mean people people don't really think about it right now. When I took over Atlanta, I was in the middle of a very violent period in crime. And so my first objective was to make the city safe. And so I think of it from the perspective of when you wave goodbye to the person you love, they're waiting for to hear that key in that door for you to come home. So I think the most sacred obligation of a mayor is to make sure you get home without anything happening to you during the course of the day while you're in the city that I have responsibility for. And so for me, that was the mo that was a very sacred obligation. And it was the issue on the campaign trail that was brought up to me most personally. And I think I committed that I was going to build a police department, 2,000 officers, but I was going to do so in a way that was humane and that was consistent with Atlanta's values. And we built the biggest police force in history. We reduced crime to the lowest levels that it has been in more than 40 years. And I felt that because of that, economic development would follow because Atlanta has everything else but an ocean. And so I used to have a joke in the office that my goal was to make Atlanta like Mayberry from a safety standpoint. Yeah. Because if it felt that safe, it's the best place to live in the world. Yeah. Except we don't have an ocean. And I even had a plan to get an ocean. I wanted to have high-speed rail to Savannah so that on a Friday you could get on a train and be at the ocean in an hour and 10 minutes, right? Wow. Governor Deal had different ideas. I couldn't get them to go along with that. But the point is, is it was safety as a tool to stimulate the economy when we were in a crisis. So we were already, it was already massive job loss. Um the property tax digest was dropping 15, 10% a year. I had real estate developers in your space walking in my office offering to give me the keys to that property because the city was one of the few entities that had money. So the city could still have the power or the borrow and purchase. And in your space, um, in the real estate space, which I think was fundamental to building Atlanta, right? What you all have to have is good credit. And if you got good credit, you can do it again.

Speaker 2 25:21

Yeah.

Speaker 25:22

So the number of folks that sat uh on my couch um was was pretty lengthy, pretty lengthy.

The Streets of Buckhead Development

Speaker 25:29

When we did The Streets of Buckhead and converted that to Buckhead Atlanta with Oliver Dean, that was a cold call. So I was doing a radio show and Torres were with me. I was on Ryan Cameron's show. Phone rang, it was Oliver Dean. And he said, we, you know, I had been making speeches about the two big holes in the ground, which is what folks in Buckhead who had not voted for me said most often to me. And so I felt like the way to really show that I cared about a part of the city that didn't think I cared was to address these two holes that were in the ground. This is before me.

Speaker 1 26:11

I is this around the shops of Buckhead, kind of the liquid.

Speaker 26:15

It used to be the shops of Buckhead.

Speaker 1 26:17

Okay.

Speaker 26:18

And it's Buckhead Atlanta now, but it was originally developed by Dean Oliver with Oliver McMillan, who's a San Diego real estate developer. So we talked on the phone, and it's now a high-end, uh premium shopping uh place. I believe that Matt Bronfman's business bought it. Yep. Yeah, James. But it was Dean Oliver. Dean Oliver did that deal. And he called me and he said, Where are you? And I said, I'm at a radio station. We started talking. He said, Look, I'm thinking about doing this deal, but first of all, I need to meet you in person and see what your energy is like. Told the truth story. Cool. I said, Well, you name it, I'll be there.

Speaker 2 27:03

Yeah.

Speaker 27:03

And he came in to the mayor's office. The mayor's office has a very long haul, and he had on these purple shades, and he had on a beautiful, I think he had on a Paul Smith suit. And he said, Bring it in from the end of the hall. And I'm thinking about these two holes in the ground. And I bring it and we hugged. Wow. First thing we did. And then after we hugged, we went in the ceremonial office, and um, and that's why you have Bucket Atlanta, Buckhead Atlanta today. Wow. His vision was to make Buckhead Atlanta as close to a Rodeo drive as the city could have. But I mean, we had uh so much we had to do. What was wrong?

Speaker 1 27:45

I again this is before me.

Speaker 27:47

So it was like a group. Well, yeah.

Speaker 1 27:50

Can we pull it up here? We actually have a uh like a little time travel tool here, and we can pull up the old aerials. Yeah, well, my time travel is my memory, but you can pull it up. You've got a great memory, by the way. That's all these stories.

Kasim on Jamestown

Speaker 1 28:06

When did they sell to Jamestown? Was that pretty recent?

Speaker 28:09

That was recent.

Speaker 2 28:10

Yeah.

Speaker 28:10

But we were doing this work in 2010, 10, 11, 12. We cut the ribbon, I think, in 14.

Speaker 2 28:19

I think they're at. That's like right where the Spanx headquarters is. It is the Spanx headquarters.

Speaker 1 28:32

But at one point, weren't there like a bunch of bars over here? And so when did it turn into a hole in the ground?

Speaker 28:38

Yeah, so because the developer development stopped because it ran out of money. Uh yeah, so so it was the bars were acquired. It was going to be the streets of Buckhead, and then development stopped. Primarily because we were in the worst economy in 80 years. There you go.

Speaker 1 28:58

Okay, so this is this is 08. This is April of 2008. Dirt still looks semi-fresh. Maybe they hadn't totally vacated yet. Yeah. I'm gonna flip forward just a little bit. There's 2009, it's kind of fuzzy. Yeah. 2011? Yeah. Oh wow. Yeah, that that looks like an abandoned. So I was just sitting there.

Speaker 29:18

Yes.

Speaker 1 29:18

For years.

Speaker 29:19

In the middle of Buckethead, in the middle of some of the most valuable real estate in the state of Georgia. Wow. So that was the complaint that I actually heard m most frequently. So when Dean called me, I mean, I said I'd meet with you right away. Did you actually but that is the job of the mayor? I did not. Okay. No, it was him. And then there was a woman named Doria Faruqi who was my COO. She was a part of the strike team that we had. And we created a team around him because it was a billion-dollar investment in very challenging economic times. And what he couldn't have was delays or typical bureaucracy. And so in those kind of transactions, we would create a strike team of four people who could walk in my office about a project at any time. Because things were so bad that if you had people deploying capital and taking those kind of risks, they couldn't wait. They couldn't have a permit or they couldn't have a certificate of occupation. They couldn't have a need that we could really fill that was taken long because they were carrying debt.

Speaker 2 30:28

Yeah.

Speaker 30:29

But that was the one, I mean, that was one of the most wonderful stories that I have remember. Every day is literally like that when you're in the job.

Speaker 1 30:36

How

Kasim on Centennial Yards

Speaker 1 30:37

did the Centennial Yards conversation?

Speaker 30:39

Centennial Yards took place because Governor Deal and I had an excellent and cooperative relationship because we both wanted to deepen the Port of Savannah. Okay. And so in order to deepen the Port of Savannah, which seems strange for an Atlanta mayor, but it really wasn't, because a big Georgia economy ends up being a big Atlanta economy. Because no matter where you are in the state, folks typically spend some, they typically touch the metro area when they want to be entertained for a period of time, business or something related to it. So my vision was this big, strong, vibrant Georgia, and we had one of the fastest growing ports in the United States. At that time, President Obama was in office. So I had the relationship with the White House. We needed 101 approvals in order to get the port deepened because of the sensitivity on the waterway with the deepening. So Governor Deal worked on that and I worked on that together. We went to see Raylor Hood together. In fact, the Secretary of Transportation used to have a photo of Governor Deal and I outside of his office to talk about how Democrats and Republicans should work together to get stuff done. So we were trying to get this done. So we get the port deepened. President Obama signs the legislation for the port funding, which is more than a billion dollars. And we get that done in a state with two Republican senators and a Republican governor. And after that, we had developed some trust. And then Richard Resler, who's Tony Resler's, I think, older brother, asked to visit with me and proposed the Gulch project. It required probably the largest tax incentive package in the history of the state of Georgia. And so that had to be passed through the General Assembly and it had to be signed on to by the mayor. And so if you look at the legislation that facilitated the Gulch, it's really tailored to what you all have across the street. In other words, there's no project of that size and scope that would qualify for the legislation that we created for the Gulch. And I thought Tony was terrific. I thought Richard was terrific. They have very different personalities. And Richard at the time was doing a lot of development in New York. And because I frequented New York on business, certainly when we would go to the rating agencies on behalf of the city when we would float debt, that gave me an opportunity to take a look at some of the work that Richard was doing in New York and then the work that he had done in California. And so that was going to be about four or five billion dollars worth of California pension fund money. And because of the relationship that we had developed on the port, we were able to get a very conservative legislature to pass the legislation we needed for what is now the biggest construction project in the history of the state. That's how the goal came to be.

Speaker 1 35:05

Yeah, good. Um have you seen that paper mill that just hit the market down there?

Speaker 35:09

I haven't seen it.

Speaker 1 35:10

So I I could pull it up, but it's basically it's like right there next to the port. There's 750 acres of this old paper mill that's been around forever and it's for sale right now. So I don't know. I guess the state will probably grab it or something. But somebody needs to grab it. Yeah, there's been been a lot of talk about this this site, but uh that's that's amazing, man. I how

Recruiting Brian McGowan

Speaker 1 35:30

did you and Brian meet? What what was that?

Speaker 35:32

Uh because we were looking for a high uh level talented individual to come to Atlanta. He, I think, was done with Washington and was trying to decide. He's got a big family, and he was trying to decide where he wanted to live. He came down, he interviewed, interviewed for the position, and he blew the doors off during the interview, and I hired him immediately. I hired him for two jobs. I think I had him I had him do economic development in InvestAtlanta. We then funded InvestAtlanta. So the city subsidizes InvestAtlanta's budget. That was largely because of our confidence in Brian. And then I think that we had him run the Atlanta Belt Line for a period of time after we prevented the belt line from becoming insolvent. People frequently don't remember that there was a period when the belt line um was at risk of not being able to continue to fund itself. And we negotiated an agreement with um the Atlanta Public School System and their leadership to to restructure their debt so they could continue to build a belt line. Wow. And then we I pretty sure we had Brian run running the belt line. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 36:44

So it's I know we're jumping around all over the place, but so the belt line.

Speaker 36:48

Talk about whatever you want to talk about.

Speaker 1 36:49

I don't give a give us a lot of gold here. So the the belt line project, when was that first presented to you? And I'm trying to remember the the exact timeline of that.

Speaker 36:57

No, the belt line project um really is the child of Mayor Shirley Franklin. Okay. So there was a student who had gone to Georgia Tech and and and and it was presented to Mayor Franklin, and she had the vision to execute on the vision. So I think today we've probably put about $1.2 billion in resources into the development of the belt line, and I think it's generated $10 billion uh in new um economic development projects. The belt line was Mayor Franklin's. And so she championed it, believed in it, um, believed in Ryan's uh vision, and so that ran for eight years. But when we had um the economic crisis of 08-09-10 when the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act had to be passed, um like any other institution, they had huge financial issues and needed a reset. And so in order to keep it going, we needed to restructure the debt. And fortunately, I remember the day that we um did the deal on that and everybody was very happy.

Speaker 2 38:11

Sure.

Speaker 38:11

And it's thrilling to see what the belt line uh has become today.

Speaker 2 38:14

Yeah.

Speaker 38:15

And they've got a terrific leader right now.

Speaker 2 38:17

Yeah.

Speaker 38:17

Oh, that's great.

Speaker 1 38:18

We've been we're we have to have him down. Yeah, you have to. Yeah. He's he's been on the list for for too long. Yeah. Well, so uh for the for the layman out there, from the city's perspective, you're saying you've invested a billion and a half in the belt line.

Speaker 38:34

Yeah. To build it out, uh, to build the infrastructure to do real estate acquisition. I think now we're probably 80% through the real estate acquisition process. I think the last 20% still needs to be done. That little section is gonna be really expensive because of the real estate values in that part of the city. Right. Um but we're gonna we're gonna get it done.

Speaker 2 38:56

Yeah.

Speaker 38:56

I mean, if you think about it, Highline in New York City um really is is the other um trail or path that people talk about. The belt line is the equivalent of the Highline all the way to Westchester County. So if you're a New Yorker, you certainly know how to do that. Yeah. So that that's to give you some idea of of what folks who who had the vision and every mayor, fortunately, has stuck with their commitment to the belt line. And then all of us have been deeply concerned about making sure that it reached all parts of Atlanta so that it makes Atlanta a far more neighborhood friendly city because you can get on the belt line and you know and reach more than 40 neighborhoods. Yeah. It's really something special.

Speaker 1 39:45

It is.

Speaker 39:45

I'm I'm excited for when it's But you know, Atlanta always has to have something big it's working

Kasim on Atlanta BeltLine and what's next

Speaker 39:50

on.

Speaker 1 39:50

Okay. This is this leads. We had a question earlier. What's the next belt line? Like where where do we go, like the next infrastructure project for the city?

Speaker 39:58

Um I think that the stitch um that's the folks have been having a conversation uh is is really important. Yeah. I think our attention probably needs to be focused more on taking the real estate inventory that is owned by the city of Atlanta, Fulton County, and DeCab County, and Marta and streamlining the process to build more housing for regular people to live in the city. I think Mayor Dickens has made real progress on affordability, but I think if you took municipally owned land with very strong real estate partners, and I think that Atlanta has an amazing real estate development community and capability and cut a deal on what it takes to really unleash neighborhoods where regular folks can live. Because the challenge of cities is going to be people who need to live in them, being able to afford to live in them, and not have to choose between medicine and rent. That that's the part of Atlanta that I think we need to be talking about right now. I

The Gulch, SoDo and High Speed Rail to Savannah

Speaker 41:13

mean, I really believe the gulch being fully built out, fully realized. I think what's being done by John and David in Soto is another part of large movements for the city of Atlanta. I think that the city should really focus on high-speed rail to Savannah again, because that would probably be the most impactful thing you could do for the state of Georgia. I mean, the real estate values are already going up in Savannah. If you take the wealth that's in the metro region, which if we were a separate country would be the 34th wealthiest country in the United States and tie it by high-speed rail, certainly the more modern high-speed rail, I think that's a big vision idea that Atlanta could get its arms around and could really galvanize support. Everybody wants to have access to water. Everybody. And if you could have everything that Atlanta has and be at a beach and then be back home, um, I think that we will continue to be the center of gravity. What I'm gravely concerned about is that I don't think that we're responding to the threat of Atlanta's dominance in the southeast the way that we should.

Speaker 1 42:40

How so?

Speaker 42:44

When I woke up, I used to have a post-it note that Atlanta in the southeast, you could go west to Texas, Dallas and Houston, you go east to the Atlantic Ocean, you could go north to Washington, D.C. And you could go 16 miles out of the peninsula to Miami. Everything else I felt was ours. Period. So if you were doing a major corporate relocation, my focus was, and we always treated Charlotte like a little cousin and really dealt with it competitively. Now I think Charlotte and Nashville are making real progress. I think Nashville is not being um fully acknowledged for what they have the potential to come to become. And I think that the enormous amount of wealth that is going into Miami needs to should cause the structural architecture of Atlanta and understand that Atlanta has structural architecture, a group of people who work to build modern Atlanta and continue to play a role in its ongoing forward movement. And our competitiveness and our dominance needs to be um refreshed, as does any corporate plan or strategy or any community plan or strategy.

Speaker 2 44:13

Yeah.

Speaker 44:13

And so that's kind of my big idea regarding um this coordination of publicly owned land to bring folks into the city so that they can actually afford to be in the city. This high-speed rail approach to Savannah, which is we came very close to having the funding for that during the Obama administration.

unknown 44:39

Yeah.

Speaker 44:40

Florida gave back nine eight billion dollars for the I-95 corridor. Chris Christie in New Jersey gave back $4 billion around the New Jersey turnpike. So if we had been in alignment at that time, Republican governors were giving back billions of dollars. So I think there'll come a time in the future where you'll have an opportunity again, and you're talking about the a multi-billion dollar project. And in Georgia, we're at our best when there is a major billion-dollar plus project that's powering the economy. Architects, engineers, lawyers. That's why Hartsville Jackson is so important because it is always in motion and improving and requiring all of these different levels of employment. Yeah. And it's our asset that's irreplaceable. It is. I mean it's can't be replicated. No. You can't do another Hartzville Jackson. And for all things people say about Martha, you can't get another MARTA.

Speaker 2 45:46

No.

Speaker 45:46

The MARTA system was supposed to be in Seattle. First of all, Marta passed by less than 300 votes. And the system was supposed to be Seattle system. Seattle had a referendum and turned down their public transit, and that funding went to Atlanta after Mayor Missell and others passed the Marta referendum, and they lowered the price of fare from 45 cents to 15 cents to pass it, and they passed it by less than 300 votes with Ambassador Young and others. It's probably more about Atlanta than you want to know.

Speaker 1 46:26

No, I I read I I read his uh Missel's biography. It was incredible. I I think at one point wasn't he like hanging out of a helicopter with a megaphone, like just campaigning for Marta and getting it passed. That was his and y'all you expanded.

Speaker 46:40

They lowered the fare box price, and that's how they won. So many, I mean, so many Atlanta stories are about really small, small margins where enormous things happened as a result of

Why High-Speed Rail to Savannah Did Not Happen Before

Speaker 46:57

the decision. Yeah.

Speaker 1 46:58

I wanted to ask earlier, you've alluded to it a couple times. Yeah. This high-speed rail project, it sounds like y'all were really close. Like how I mean, how close are we Yeah, the money? I just I mean, was it just a shortcoming in votes or no?

Speaker 47:11

I think that there was unreadiness among our conservative friends about how to fund it sustainably. Got it.

Speaker 1 47:19

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Speaker 47:55

And if you served in the General Assembly, I served in the House and the Senate, Georgia takes enormous pride in its AAA credit rating. And so to the extent that you're trying to move something through the Georgia General Assembly or get the support of the governor, and they really don't have a firm idea about how to pay for it long term, you're gonna it's it's gonna be tougher. And so that was the conversation that was occurring in a you know in a pretty tight window. Yeah.

Atlanta’s Proposed Second Airport

Speaker 1 48:31

Did the conversation of having a second Atlanta airport come up while you were in office?

Speaker 48:36

Aaron Powell It came up all the time and we killed it every time. We killed it because first of all, I think Richard Anderson is probably one of the most important executives. He was the former CEO of Delta and ran um the air airline after bankruptcy after Greenstein. And he was a champion of Atlanta and is one of the main reasons that Atlanta's headquarters is in Atlanta, not in uh Minnesota, Minneapolis, right? And so um he and I had a a very strong relationship. Uh he supported my administration. He helped me pass pension reform, which was the biggest financial change in the city of Atlanta. It's the reason why we have double A plus credit and AAA credit from uh Fitch. Um that was Richard. And so Delta, you know, we have a massive amount of real estate uh out off of our 20, I think we have more than 14,000 acres. And Delta has never wanted um Atlanta to have a secondary airport for a number of strategic reasons. Sure. And they're the one or one of the three largest private employers in the state. They were emerging from bankruptcy, and I didn't think that it was a good idea given the the number of employees, what Delta does for Atlanta, the fairness with which they pay their employees and treat their employees to bring difficulty into their lives. You have an institution that emerges from bankruptcy, and then you want to start playing games around a secondary airport and have the airport deal with a new threat. And so sometimes one night Richard made a speech in New York where he said that Atlanta, you know, would never have a second airport. And then the newspaper called me, and you know, by the time they got me on the phone, he had texted me to tell me he had said it. And my response was, yeah, I support the CEO of Delta Airlines. Yes. Which is another part of being mayor. Because if you, you know, you cannot hate business and love jobs. So at that time, I mean, in 10, 11, and 12, people can't appreciate today. I think they can, because we're in the how tough things were because the crisis was tied to your house and people were losing their houses. And whole you could go in neighborhoods where a third of the houses were empty, were were foreclosed on. And so even if your house wasn't foreclosed on, it creates anxiety in you just because you can you can see it. Yeah. And so that's the story behind, and we maintain that relationship. I mean, I remember one day Richard called me on the phone just to show you how days of marriage go. He asked me what I'm doing. And I said, I'm, you know, I'm getting ready to give a speech. He said, When you finish the speech, come by my office, we're gonna go see Fred Smith to talk about job expansion in in Georgia. We hop on a plane, we fly over to Memphis. Next thing I know, we're sitting with Fred Smith talking about Atlanta. Mutar Kent, we fly all around the world, and I never knew what time I would get a call from him about something that he cared about in Atlanta, and you have to answer the phone. He's the person that took me to um the world my first world economic forum. Cool. Was with was with Mutar. Yeah. So I'm just showing you these are things that you ask about what the job is like. And other parts of the job.

The Mayor’s Power and Responsibility

Speaker 1 52:38

How much of it do you feel like is reactive? It sounds like a lot of kind of playing referee in some senses versus being proactive and No, I think it's both.

Speaker 52:48

I mean, I think I think if you're the center of action, you're the center of action. Yeah. Right? So you happen to things, things don't happen to you for the most part. Yeah. And so if you're the the mayor of Atlanta is a powerful position by design because it the nature of the job gives you the opportunity to hold constituencies accountable. Because everybody's going to need a police officer, everybody's going to need access to fire. An alcohol permit has to be approved by the mayor. A certificate of occupancy has to be approved by the mayor's office. So if there is some entity that you believe is moving in a way that's inconsistent with what is best for the city that you govern, there will be an opportunity for you and that entity to interface.

Speaker 2 53:45

Yeah.

Speaker 53:45

It will need the city.

unknown 53:47

Yeah.

Speaker 53:48

And so that's what being mayor is like. I got a question for you. Yeah, shoot.

Speaker 1 53:52

Uh this

Kasim on The Dewberry Tower

Speaker 1 53:53

the Dewberry Tower Campanale. Yes. See what Andre's doing with increased taxes.

Speaker 54:00

I think we should have done it a long time ago. I mean, we did we when when we when um North American properties did Colony Square.

Speaker 2 54:09

Yeah.

Speaker 54:10

An excellent development. Mark Toro did a first rate job. We did incentives at that time around the Campanal building. Right? Road improvements, infrastructure improvements. And the truth of the matter is just uh if you look across the street at what Mark did. It's day and night. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, we were competing for the Apple Cube at that location. Mark was trying to get an Apple Cube. I remember it because he had me call um Vice President Kamala Harris. She was then a senator to try to help with Apple.

unknown 54:50

Wow.

Speaker 54:50

So if you look what was happening across the street, it gives you some sense of why we were hopeful about what would happen on the other side of the street. That said, I believe that the city should use all of the instruments available to the city to bring it into compliance because it has gone on too long. Yeah. And I don't really, you know, I mean, you're a business guy. At some point, you really don't care what the story is. Yeah, just pull up a picture of spend 10 years.

Speaker 1 55:22

Yeah. It's it's just it's nutty.

Speaker 55:24

And uh you need to find somebody like Dean Oliver at Oliver McMillan to come in. Who was the only person. You asked me, were other people competing to do streets of Buckhead or Buckhead Atlanta or whatever? He was the only person that co-called me.

unknown 55:39

Wow.

Speaker 55:40

Yeah.

Speaker 1 55:40

You got a little fuzz. I don't know where this we can cut this out, but there was some fuzz that grabbed your beard. Wow. I think can you get it out of the can you edit? It just it just showed that's it. Yeah, yeah. Here we'll we'll edit all that out. All right. Um it's uh sometimes we have stuff that floats around in these parts. It's a little dusty in here. It's okay.

Speaker 55:59

Um I just hope you'll clean me up.

Speaker 1 56:01

Yeah, yeah. No, we'll we'll make it look great. And um, everything that goes out we'll we'll send to your team. Okay. And Ann's been great to work with. And she is sounds like y'all go way back. Yes. You and Anne. Yeah. So she was my comms person.

Speaker 56:13

Okay. So she ran communications with me when I was mayor and is now has her own shop. Very cool. Yes. Very cool.

Speaker 1 56:20

Um still puts up with me. Oh, yeah. Uh

The Apple Cube and Midtown Atlanta

Speaker 1 56:24

let me get this straight. The Apple Cube was gonna go at the site of the Campanille, or was it gonna be a part of Colony Square? No, Colony Square.

Speaker 56:30

That was so in that open space that you have. Oh, really? We wanted it to be a part of those open spaces. We really wanted it right there on that corner where the where that there's uh an area where there used to be a fountain. Okay. Before they had built out the Jones Day building. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So that building would have built diff been built differently. Yeah. If you had had, you know, Apple that Apple Cube, which would have been a stunning piece for midtown. Oh, it would have. I mean, stunning. Yeah.

Speaker 1 57:01

I've um so we we tour, so there's the 1180 building, King of Spaulding, next door's Percenium. Yeah. And there's there's tour, I mean, we'll bring people over to Percenium. Yes. I'm I'm happy for them. They they landed KPMG as a big lease, but yeah. Any tour we have, I mean, you look out the windows and it's yeah, it's the construction project and with no real insight.

Speaker 57:23

But um I'm shocked that King of Spaulding is tolerated.

Speaker 1 57:28

I know. I think it was just I after I think my wife I gotta ask Senator Nunn about it.

Speaker 57:32

They should definitely do something. I see them in the elevator in my building.

Speaker 1 57:36

My wife has this thing, you know, keeping the house tidy. If you've if you see something, I think it's like 16 times, it just becomes totally invisible. Yeah. So it's amazing how how much you just accept it being there. I mean, uh like we office there, and it's as much of you know, when somebody brings it up again, I'm like, yep, it's there. Like it's it's uh it is embarrassing for the you know first first time person coming through.

Speaker 58:01

But I hope you all rally and support the mayor in fixing it.

Speaker 1 58:04

Absolutely. No, we had him in the town hall, um, actually to Cushman's office, and that was the first question somebody asked, like, what are you gonna do about it? And then like the next day there's something in the paper. But I'm uh I I hope I'm not hurting my chance. We really want we want Dewberry to come on the show and tell us what his his master plans are.

Speaker 58:20

And uh hopefully this will make him want to come. He's a competitive guy.

Speaker 1 58:23

Yes, please, please come set the record straight, John. We'd we'd love to have you. Um all right, I got a bunch of questions here. Let me let me get a couple more together. Okay, here's one. From a government perspective, and you've hit on this a couple times.

What Developers Don’t Understand About City Government

Speaker 1 58:40

What what do you feel like commercial real estate developers don't understand about how a city perceives their development?

Speaker 58:47

Um I think that I think that they don't understand the volume that cities deal with with a limited workforce that is forcibly finite by virtue of the amount of taxes that you're willing to raise to either expand the function or narrow the function. And I think that in the development community, um during my time, we actually had a a group of folks from the development space form a strike team, and they worked shoulder to shoulder and made a number of changes around the permitting process and other processes that touch your business. I think more of that's needed in the future. Yeah. But I would say I would say folks who are in the private sector have no idea about the volume that a major American city deals with with a constrained workforce. It's not like the private sector where you have a challenge, you identify the challenge, and then you can designate the resources because we're constrained by what people are willing to pay in taxes. During my time in office, we never raised property taxes. And we were in the worst of the worst of it. I mean, we found other ways. Um pension reform was one of them. Um selling um non-core uh assets, which was a blue ribbon panel that Richard Anderson and Howard Shook ran. Um so we found other ways as opposed to going to going to taxpayers because they were hurting as badly as we were.

Speaker 2 1:00:31

Yeah.

AI, Zoning, and Permitting

Speaker 1 1:00:32

Here's so with a lim limited resources, at the time y'all didn't have AI and Claude and ChatGPT. But I'm I'm wondering how like today, if y'all could uh implement some sort of software where any sort of zoning application or permit if you could sift through stuff, do you feel like that would obviously it would clean up a lot of the admin kind of work, but as far as approvals, I mean, do you feel like that would you know shorten things or do you feel like it still has to run its course and have buy-in?

Speaker 1:01:01

I mean, I believe um that there's a path towards faster approvals um using the a constrained workforce and being a force multiplier for it.

Speaker 1 1:01:11

Yeah.

Speaker 1:01:12

So I think people in in government leadership know that folks do not want to see higher taxes or an expansion of the workforce. And I think that uh some technologies are going to be able to provide an improved customer experience is using these efficiencies. So long as folks are willing to eventually invest in really training people as opposed to getting something and just dumping it there, which happens so often with technology and series. Yeah. Yeah, that's real. That'll really show people how to use it.

Speaker 1 1:01:45

Yeah. Or it'll go unused. What

Data Centers and Community Concerns

Speaker 1 1:01:48

what do you think of all this data center stuff, all the conversations around that?

Speaker 1:01:51

Aaron Powell I think that there should generally be um a pause on data centers and uh case-by-case review with public input on what should happen with data centers. You feel like it's just going too quick and we just don't have an idea of the impact. I mean, I I think that everybody needs to get better at it. I think we've definitely we're definitely going too fast. I also think that because of the enormous wealth behind the institutions, that they're not being as responsive and sensitive to people as they should be. And that's why they're being humbled. People will humble you. I don't care who you are. And that's what data centers are experiencing in conservative communities and in um other communities, right? And so I think that as opposed to um just merely pausing it, people really need to get in the trenches and try to figure out a cooperative path around this. I think that small-cell data centers are going to be a bigger part of the solution going forward because they're less intrusive and don't require the massive data center infrastructure. But for the data centers that are needed, and somebody's got to get out here and fight for it and make the case. If you really believe that that this development is key to as m to America's dominance against China, get out here and prove it. But the days where you're gonna get it just because you have the most money, those days are over. Right.

Incentives, Electricity, and Community Benefits

Speaker 1 1:03:35

Yeah, I feel like the the expectation for getting some sort of incentive is it's out out of the way now. It's like I feel like he has to flip to the other side where it's like, all right, we can we can allow this, but how are we gonna help our communities? Correct.

Speaker 1:03:47

And that and that's where you're seeing um that's where you're seeing the puck going. Yeah. The puck is going from being able to win incentives to explaining to a community how you can provide them with electricity or how you can provide them with a capability that they don't currently have today. Yeah. Yeah,

Why Fairness Is Harder Than “My Way or the Highway”

Speaker 1:04:04

that's right. But everybody needs to be more humble right now. I mean, here's here's what I think. I think fairer is harder. We're all in an environment where people have greater voice through technology, through podcasts like your people. If somebody wants to speak out, they're gonna speak out. And in the world we're in, something that you thought 10 people were gonna see, 70,000 people will see. And so I think we all need to come to grips with the fact that fairer is harder. It's easy to my way or to highway it. Yeah, it's faster.

Speaker 2 1:04:45

Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1:04:46

And for a long time, you know, there were very small group of voices that were calling the shots that way. And if we really want to be pathbreaking and leading Atlanta, given its great history of cooperation as the home of Dr. Martin Luther King and the people who were with him and the business leaders who interacted with Martin Luther King before other business leaders ever had to have that kind of interaction. Right. Then we ought to be figuring that out right now, I think.

Speaker 1 1:05:19

Yeah. That's uh I I'm I'm throwing another one at you here. Yeah,

Flock Cameras and Public Safety

Speaker 1 1:05:26

yeah, yeah. I don't really have a strong opinion about this yet, but the flock cameras that there's a lot of people that have a lot of strong opinions. What what are your thoughts on on what's happening with those?

Speaker 1:05:36

I think that folks have to understand that um that you can't hire enough police officers to protect a city that is growing as part of Atlanta as fast as Atlanta is. And if you were to go to London right now, one of the reasons that London is able to To achieve the level of safety that they have with almost no weapons is because of the use of technology. And I think the conversation around Flock is pretty amazing considering all of the surveillance businesses that are in the space. And the fact of the matter is, is that cameras are a part of the solution. They're not the core of it. So from what I have seen, they have listened to the public, they're responding to the issues. But I'm stunned that a technology business is probably one of the biggest unicorns in the history of Georgia is being treated like this in a place where we should be wanting more and more unicorns. It doesn't mean you don't need to fix your behavior. But using an Atlanta-based startup that's nine years old, founded by a group of Georgia Tech graduates, and allowing it to be a national poster trial for surveillance, I think it's a bridge too far. That's what I think. And so I think that they clearly have gotten the message and are clearly making concrete changes that are real and verifiable. But until you've been a mayor, when the Paris attacks happened, and in 45 minutes, a group of individuals were able to rampage across the city, and to a person sitting at home on the couch, that may seem far away. It's not right. So when that happened in Paris, we developed a rapid response team that was different from SWAT. We had developed a long arm capability. And so I'm just sitting here as a person that has been responsible for people every single day and every single night, that this capability is an important capability. And I'll go back to my comment that it needs to be fair and it needs to be monitored. But this notion that you shouldn't have the capability at all, you can't hire enough police. Yeah. You cannot hire enough police as Atlanta continues to grow and as the metro continues to grow. Yeah. You pay for it one way or the other. You're either going to pay for it in taxes to fund more police officers, or you're going to have a cape capability. If you have LPRs, they reduce crime. Because typically, when someone is going to commit a crime, they use a stolen vehicle. So if someone's in a stolen vehicle, there's a probability that they're going to commit a crime. But if fairer is harder, you gotta listen to the folks on the other side.

Speaker 2 1:09:17

Got it.

Speaker 1 1:09:17

Yeah. There you go. I know, yeah. There's there's uh a lot

Atlanta’s Growth and Responsibility to Visitors

Speaker 1 1:09:23

of people have pointed out the city, we have a population of about a half a million, but the metro is like six, almost seven million now, and we're yeah, but during the during the daytime, two million people, one point five million people are in the city limits.

Speaker 1:09:35

And you have a responsibility for every person that drives into the city of Atlanta to make sure that that woman or that man gets home safely.

Speaker 1 1:09:42

That's right. That's right.

Speaker 1:09:44

And you cannot be people we are in the hosting business. We are one of the fifth most visited cities in the United States of America. People come here because of what we have to offer. We have to protect them. Yeah.

Speaker 1 1:10:02

Yeah, I heard

Hosting Major Events in Atlanta

Speaker 1 1:10:03

I heard we did really well with the World Cup.

Speaker 1:10:05

I mean, I I mean, I heard. I mean, the World Cup was it was it was masterfully done. Yes. But that is because Atlanta has repetition. Yeah. We do major events in our sleep all of the time. And because Billy Payne and Ambassador Young won the Centennial Olympics, we've done the biggest event you can do on earth. And if you walk into a meeting and you start with that, then it's a matter of the details of your business. I mean, during Miami royalty, we won the Final Four, we won the college football championship, we won the Super Bowl. We won a soccer team led by Arthur Blank. People don't even remember we beat Miami when we built Mercedes, when Arthur Blank and the city cooperated on Mercedes-Benz. We beat Miami for the soccer franchise.

Speaker 1 1:11:00

Oh, interesting. Yes. So they were going to go down there.

Speaker 1:11:02

No, we were competing against Miami for a soccer franchise when Arthur won the soccer franchise. Just think about that.

Speaker 1 1:11:11

Yeah. That's big. Tell me about that. So Mercedes-Benz that was built and approved. And we had um

The Mercedes-Benz Stadium Deal

Speaker 1 1:11:19

so Mike Plant just told us the story about the Braves, and we don't have to go into Turner Field unless you want to, but I don't care.

Speaker 1:11:25

We can talk about anything. The Braves decision was one of the best decisions I made when I was mayor. Tell me, I'd love to hear your side of the table. Uh my side of the table is that we were working with the Falcons and Arthur Blank. And Arthur Blank, as an individual, had been one of the best people to the state of Georgia in the history of the state. Through his philanthropy, um, his foundation had invested more than $330 million into Metro Atlanta. And so I felt that the Falcons should be helped, and there was already an existing rent revenue stream. Yeah. That was not the case with the Braves. So there was a hotel motel tax that pays police salaries, that pays tra trash, um, that pays people to pick up the trash, sanitation.

Speaker 2 1:12:18

Yeah.

Speaker 1:12:18

And it helped fund the city. In order to fund the construction of Mercedes-Benz, we extended it. If we had not uh built the Mercedes-Benz Stadium, that funding would have gone away. So it was uh it wasn't it was a revenue hit on the city, it wasn't even neutral. All right. So here you have this philanthropist who has supported Atlanta unwaveringly through philanthropy and this revenue stream that would go away. So one night, I think it was one morning, um, Governor Deal, not Governor Deal, but his chief of staff, um, Chris, called me and said we needed to meet at the mansion. And so we go into the mansion, governor had a re-election coming up, they looked at the data, which was abysmal. And during that night, you know, the governor said, you know, the the state's not going to participate. He's a frank man. I was there, he was there, Arthur was there, his chief of staff was there. And from that moment on, but he did say during that meeting, he said, we've got a cooperative relationship with the city. If they want to proceed, they can proceed.

Speaker 1 1:13:39

This is the kind of redevelopment of Turner Field. Is that what you're talking about?

Speaker 1:13:42

No, I'm talking about Mercedes-Benz statement.

Speaker 1 1:13:44

Oh, I'm sorry, okay.

Speaker 1:13:45

And so um, that is how the city took the lead in the process for Mercedes-Benz working in cooperation with the Atlanta Falcons. So we then passed the legislation, but the funding was reduced from $300 million to $200 million. So the city's exposure on Mercedes-Benz was reduced. And we passed the legislation for it, I think, in less than nine weeks. And the state didn't have to pass the legislation, and the city took the lead on passing the legislation. And I think we ended up doing a $1.5 or $1.7 billion project led by Arthur Blank and the Falcons and making what I think is the best stadium in the world. And I felt that he would do that because anybody that knows him knows that if he does something, it's going to be done in a first-class manner.

Speaker 2 1:14:42

Yeah.

Speaker 1:14:43

What people may not know is that before the Mercedes-Benz Stadium was where it is, it was actually proposed to be by Georgia Tech. Yeah. So during the during the private meetings when we were thinking through sighting, I think I can talk about it, you know, 10 years later, whatever it is. Can we show the site that we're talking about? You have to look near Georgia Tech and show me where the Georgia Power um substation is.

Speaker 1 1:15:12

All right, here's Bobby Dodd.

Speaker 2 1:15:14

Yeah.

Speaker 1:15:15

Let's find a Georgia Power substation.

Speaker 1 1:15:20

Do I need to type it in or do you feel like you can point it out? No, I can't.

Speaker 1:15:23

But it has a substation up there. Georgia.

Speaker 1 1:15:25

Georgia Power. Is it still there? Georgia Tower. I believe it is. Power substation Georgia.

Speaker 2 1:15:34

Let's see what pops up here. Is that on 14th Street? Is that I think so.

Speaker 1:15:45

So the idea

Choosing the Mercedez-Benz Stadium Location

Speaker 1:15:46

was Was it gonna be here? Yeah. So the idea was it was gonna be where it would have had to move that substation.

Speaker 2 1:15:54

Yeah.

Speaker 1:15:54

And so number one, I wanted the stadium to be near the Atlanta University Center. Yeah. Because my feeling was that those historically black colleges and universities would benefit immensely from having a one and a half billion dollar asset near it. That everything around it would have an echo effect. And I think that that's been proven to be the case. And that's where we settled. And I knew when we were in the meeting in Arthur Blank's conference room, when they put up that picture of Georgia Powers substation, I looked at Paul Bowers and I felt that I would have an ally in moving it somewhere else.

Speaker 2 1:16:34

Yeah.

Speaker 1:16:35

Yeah. Because I'm telling you, the the power in the name Georgia Power is for both kinds of power. So they're forced to be reckoned with in the state of Georgia. I didn't think they really wanted to move that substation.

Speaker 1 1:16:49

No.

Speaker 1:16:49

And so we ended up um working in a cooperative fashion, and that's how you have uh Mercedes-Benz Stadium where you where you have it today. Got it. And that's why we did that deal. The Braves, on the other hand, came after that. So you're doing two state stadiums, and people who didn't live it don't appreciate you're running a major city. We had we had to keep the Falcons, and we had to keep the Falcons because you kept the revenue that went along with the hotel motel tax. Yeah. If they went, that revenue went away.

Speaker 1 1:17:22

Support for Sunbelt developers comes from Northspire, the development intelligence platform built for real estate developers. Please visit Northspire.com. Again, that's Northspire.com. Now back to the show.

Speaker 1:17:36

The

Why the Braves Left Turner Field

Speaker 1:17:37

Braves were in the stadium that we had built for the Olympics, and we had been in negotiation with them while we were doing the Falcons deal. From a talent standpoint, it was difficult to do two of those negotiations at the same time. And the public did not want any public funding of stadiums. That's where they were. I knew from the governor's polling data and from our own polling data, the public didn't want to do it at all. In fact, people came to me and asked me to do a referendum. And I had seen what happened when Gavin Newsom did a referendum in San Francisco, which is why the San Francisco 49ers do not play in San Francisco. Referendum was voted down. They go and they moved. Yeah. So my response was I was going to be the referendum. So we were going to do the stadium, the Mercedes-Benz Stadium, which we did. Then it was time to negotiate with the Braves. So the Braves wanted a path where they could acquire all of the real estate that is near Turner Field, what was then Turner Field, and they wanted it done rapidly. There is stadium fatigue after spending all of the time and political capital that was spent around Mercedes. Yeah, how long? Mercedes didn't have a lot of time. A couple years of conversations. Yes. Yeah. I mean, building a massive project. Right. And, you know, I felt that I felt that the Braves and their team certainly felt some neglect. Um, so I accept my part of that. I know that I know that from a team standpoint, the team that needed to be with the Braves was on the Falcons. And I know that when we got done with the Falcons, um, that we turned our attention to the Braves. But during that window of time, they had started their conversations with uh my friend Tim Lee in Cobb County, who since passed. And they went and negotiated a deal with Tim. But I was at I was at opening day, at the opening day game for the Braves. Because my feeling was that where they were going, and it was certainly one of the hardest days I had as mayor, but we met, I think, at 7.30 in the morning, and they told me that they were had made the decision to l to leave. And, you know, I wrote very clearly why I thought that my decision not to fund a private company that was owned by an out-of-town business person was not the same as it was with the Falcons. And let me be clear, if they were leaving Georgia, I would have done anything to have kept them.

Speaker 2 1:20:33

Yeah.

Speaker 1:20:33

But going to off 7585, they were closer to my house when they moved than they were when they were at Turner Field. So my feeling is if you look at Cobb County, which has a very strong balance sheet, they have four different four tax increases to help fund that transaction. That was their decision. I respect that. Tim Lee passed. The next chair got beat. Everybody that was involved in the Braves transaction, and you can go check it, lost. Yeah. I've heard that. So my I mean, I mean, so they lost. Yeah. And it was a terrific deal for Liberty Media.

Speaker 2 1:21:12

Yeah.

Speaker 1:21:13

So when you bring it up, you know, I know you were trying to be kind to your guests. I'm happy to talk about it.

Speaker 2 1:21:18

Yeah.

Speaker 1:21:19

I feel that it has been terrific for the financial performance of Liberty Media. I go to the Braves Games and love them as much as I did when I was a kid.

Speaker 2 1:21:30

Yeah.

Speaker 1:21:31

And I think it's been tremendous for really urbanizing Cobb County because Cobb now has a vital urban center. They don't have to come in to the city. So I'm happy to talk about it in terms of it working out. Yeah. Which I think, you know, most folks would be surprised at at that view. But I I knew what the data was on public funding of stadiums. Sure.

Speaker 1 1:21:56

And it it makes a lot of sense just coming off the heels of years of conversations with the Falcons. And I mean, you're looking at, all right, which one do we need to prioritize? Yeah.

Speaker 1:22:05

And then after that, we did the retrofit for Tony Resler and the Hawks. Yeah. At

State Farm Arena and Atlanta United

Speaker 1:22:11

State Farm Arena, which is the biggest retrofit, the second biggest retrofit of an arena, second only to Madison Square Garden. Wow. And we did that with Tony Resler and the Hawks. My point is between that and Atlanta United coming here, I mean, stadiums, just think of uh of that as part of your portfolio. Sure. Going back to your first question about what it was like to be mayor. Yeah.

Speaker 1 1:22:35

So fun conversations to be. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Sure. Sure. A lot of them. Um can you

The Underground Atlanta Deal

Speaker 1 1:22:41

tell me about the underground deal, Underground Atlanta?

Speaker 1:22:43

How that's the one that's Okay, Underground and Punts. So so Richard and Howard, back when the city was broke and had very poor credit, decided to go through all of the assets that the city had to determine what we should sell or what was costing us cash flow.

Speaker 2 1:23:02

Yeah.

Speaker 1:23:03

And Underground was one of those items that was costing us several million dollars a year and was an underperforming asset that the city would never bring to fruition. And so there was a developer from South Carolina. Yeah, WRS, and they wanted to buy it. And we thought that that was a terrific idea from a balance sheet standpoint. And we thought that at the end of the day, Underground would be best in private sector hands. And so that was a balance sheet play that we did. We got rid of carry costs, we got rid of security costs, we got rid of debt, we got rid of liability, and we put it in the hands of a private sector company that had an excellent record of doing deals. Yeah. And so, and it was a good financial deal for us. That was the same model that we followed with closing Civic Center and selling that property to Mike Green and his partners. That was a balance sheet play, as was Pont City Market.

Ponce City Market and Jamestown

Speaker 1:24:09

So Pont City Market was in the group of properties that Richard and Howard and I looked at to dispose of. And as fate would have it, I was given a talk in New York at one of the leading cities' conferences. And at that time, the hot restaurant in New York was a restaurant called Catch. So you know how you go to these conferences, and when it's all over, you typically go out to dinner before you before you um go and leave the next day. So I went to catch me and about six or seven people, most of whom are still friends of mine to this day. We had a wonderful experience. But when you walked out of Catch in the side of the wall, I mean it was in this warehouse district that was shabby chic, had the shabby chic flow. And the energy was amazing. But on the wall, it had Jamestown properties. And so I'm looking at it, and I I talked to um my staff person. I said, that that company's based in Atlanta. And I knew Matt because Matt had worked at uh Matt Bronfman had worked at Holland and Night, where I had been up to we get back, we explore it. I call Matt, I call Richard, I call my chief of staff, my COO, and I said we're gonna call them. So we called them to explore them um looking at the property. And I think shortly thereafter, they sent a team to start diligencing the deal. And they, you know, it's a German firm, so they're very reserved. Uh, and then they went through a process and end up, we ended up negotiating a deal to sell it to them, but we had to create a competitive process. So because it was a publicly public-owned entity, we had to transfer Pond City Market, which was being used for municipal functions. And I think we did that transaction through InvestAtlanta, which managed the competitive bid.

Speaker 1 1:26:17

Got it.

Speaker 1:26:17

And then, I mean, Matt could not have been a more amazing partner. They were incredible, but the key in that deal was the historic tax credits that we received from President Obama's administration.

Speaker 2 1:26:29

Okay.

Speaker 1:26:30

Which is just one of the incredible stories for another pod. Yeah. And so um, and then after that, we appointed, I had Matt join the Atlanta Committee for Progress. Okay. Which during my administration was just an absolutely essential group of folks um that helped guide the city.

Speaker 1 1:26:50

Is it still going? Committee for progress?

Speaker 1:26:52

I do not know. But the Atlanta Committee for Progress, when I was in the office, was one of the three most external bodies in the life of the city of Atlanta. And if it's not still going, it needs to be because it it's we're sourced on that. I don't I don't I don't think we could have got all that stuff done. I mean, Civic Center, what Civic Center is going to be in the future, it'll be a $600 million project. I think that project should have moved faster. But we were right about underground. I think with what's happening in Soto and uh and in the Gulch will influence uh what happens around Underground. I think it's going to reach there. Yeah. Governor Deal and I did a deal when we did Underground. That's why I think Bobby Jones is the golf course that the state acquired in that transaction. And then we got the parking deck for Underground, which the state owned. So there's all kind of wonderful stories to tell.

Speaker 1 1:27:48

All stuff. All stuff. Yeah. Um, how are you doing on time? I don't I don't know how long. I'm good.

Speaker 1:27:52

I got about 10 more minutes.

Speaker 1 1:27:53

All right, let's do it. Um, let's see, let's see. Got a a couple here about kind of looking ahead. Um most development teams don't have a data problem. They have a timing problem. Something goes sideways on a project, and by the time it reaches the forecast, your only options left are a change order or a contingency draw. Northspire is the development intelligence platform that closes that gap. Budgets, forecasts, draws, and vendor data connected in one place. So your team sees the exposure while there's still room to act. Built by a developer for developers. Northspire.com. Again, that's Northspire.com. Now back to the show.

How Atlanta Has Changed

Speaker 1 1:28:38

How has Atlanta fundamentally changed since you left the mayor's office?

Speaker 1:28:43

Uh I think the city is fundamentally changed to have real authentic diversity. I think Atlanta for most of our development has been a black and white-centered city. And I think that we're on the path to becoming a fully diverse and more international city. I think more folks feel like Atlanta is home, and I think that we have more offerings for people that are not just black and white.

Speaker 2 1:29:17

Yeah.

Speaker 1:29:17

I think that so much of our city's greatness is tied to how we manage through issues of race and class before other people were willing to do it. And and uh the business leaders who worked cooperatively cooperatively with them to create the Atlanta that you and I sit in right now. But I think right now the biggest change is I think Atlanta is becoming a real international city. Yeah. That's cool.

Speaker 1 1:29:55

Okay. Let's I we don't have too much, I got to come up for you. Yeah. Um okay, we talked about Beltline, talked about mayor's office.

Kasim's Hardest Decision while in office and Pension Reform

Speaker 1 1:30:05

What was the hardest decision you had to make while in office? Oh, that's a good one.

Speaker 1:30:10

The hardest decision I had to make um was definitely doing pension reforms. Doing pension reform. I mean, it you know, when I came into office, um we did not have much money because we were in this uh uh global recession. We were in the 08, 09, 10 uh recession. And I think our pension costs were absorbing between 15 and 18 percent of revenue.

unknown 1:30:41

Uh-huh.

Speaker 1:30:42

And the way that the state of Georgia is structured, if you don't pay meet your pension payments, the first thing the state does is take your sales tax. The second thing they do is take your charter. So your pension obligations are fundamental. And so I think having been supported with uh overwhelming union support and labor support, it was very, very difficult for me to make the decision to reform the pension system, which you know, back then we just had a we had what was a subprime loan. We were paying a pension obligation and the money wasn't even going to the to the principal. It's interest it's interest-only loan. And so to to change that now where we have uh a fund balance and we're meeting our pension obligations, and we left the biggest cash reserve in the history of the city with more than 200 million bucks, and we left with AA plus credit from Standard and Poor's Moody's and Fitch, up eight credit improvements. So it was definitely um the the toughest decision I made. Yeah.

Speaker 1 1:31:52

What was the was there I wasn't around for that. I mean, I think I was in like middle school. Well, I mean, what was the what was the pushback? Do you have people like picking outside the office and very tough?

Speaker 1:32:04

Anytime you adjust folks' pension, sure. I mean, folks get really active. And so, you know, I probably did meetings with maybe four thousand forty, five hundred people, probably half of the workforce of the city of Atlanta. But uh I had sit-ins in the mayor's office and all of the rest. But that was that was hard. Probably the most fun was, you know, when we were um Governor Deal and I were working to develop the motion picture and television business. And that was probably the most fun. I mean, I I I a fun fact, I don't think people realize that the three most profitable movies back then that had ever been made were the three Avengers and Marvel movies that were filmed right, right, and fairly popular. Yeah. So that was a fun period of time. And then uh and then recruiting Porsche and building uh the building that is the Avenger headquarters. That's right.

Speaker 1 1:33:01

Shout out Ken Ashley.

Speaker 1:33:03

I work with Ken.

Speaker 1 1:33:04

He's he helped with that deal.

Speaker 1:33:06

Ken, I remember meeting Ken at a restaurant and huge shout out to DetLev and Platton, who is the leader at Porsche, who made the decision to to cite uh the headquarters there. Yeah. And that was another one that we got done. What folks may not know is we were going for Volkswagen too. Didn't know that. Yeah. And that's where they go. Um they went to Virginia.

Speaker 2 1:33:28

Okay.

Speaker 1:33:29

But that site was built with Volkswagen and Porsche in mind. We were going for both of them. Man. Yeah. That Porsche headquarters, you know, every time you see an Avengers movie, they show that Porsche building. Beautiful building. It's fun to get out there and go.

Speaker 1 1:33:46

How

How Kasim Reed Got Major Deals Done

Speaker 1 1:33:47

were you able to get so many deals done? I just feel so like I just told you my schedule.

Speaker 1:33:52

I guess so. I mean, you're just going. I loved it. Yeah. I loved I love being mayor. Yeah. And I acted like it. Yeah. And uh, you know, I really felt that when I from sitting with Ambassador Young to actually getting the job of being mayor, I think that it gave me an energy and a vigor and a passion um that allowed me to get stuff done. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 1:34:16

I I remember driving down 75 one day. And I so a little bit of my story. I I left high school, I finished high school early and went overseas for about a year and a half. Where'd you go? Um all over. It was like 16 countries. I was in Australia for a lot of it, went to Israel, Finland, Switzerland, and I got back and it was I was like right around the time that Adventures was getting filmed. And um it was just a really, really cool time. But I I remember driving down the highway and I think I was like either coming up on the Atlantic Station, that the yellow bridge, but we just did that with Jim Jacoby.

Speaker 1:34:50

Yeah, yeah. Jim Jacoby and Jim Jacoby is the person that we bought the land from for Porsche. Oh wow. Yeah. Fun fact Is he still active? Can can we have him down? I think so it was Jim Jacoby and Rutherford Seidel had acquired the old Hateville Ford plant. And and that's where we we bought that property, and that's what became the Porsche headquarters. Wow, way back.

Speaker 1 1:35:15

Oh, Rutherford. I had um I had lunch with Clark just the other day. Yeah. He's he's back. Yeah. He's back from from Miami. But um well, I just to finish the thought, I just finished your song. I remember driving down the highway. I saw Midtown, and it was just like, oh my gosh, this is like a real city. I just I remember growing up, you know, coming up to Atlanta. I grew up down in Peachtree City, but I I vividly remember when I I realized Atlanta was a cool place and I was gonna end up spending my career here. Because when I, you know, getting back from overseas, I was like, you know, sky's the limit. Um I don't know if I want to stick around here, but I just remember I was like, this is it. And I just, you know, through stories, I was like, well, Cassine helped this happen, he helped this happen, Beltline, Pond City, Mercedes-Benz. And so we would have we had a run.

Speaker 1:35:57

I mean, I think some years we were doing four billion in construction permits, five billion in construction permits. What a run. Yeah.

Speaker 1 1:36:04

Yeah. Well, Cassine, it's it's been awesome. I really appreciate it.

Speaker 1:36:08

Thank you for having me on your air.

Speaker 1 1:36:09

Yeah, absolutely. And uh I'll

Kasim Reed’s Podcast and Upcoming Book

Speaker 1 1:36:11

have to I'll check out your your podcast. Uh, it sounds interesting with all these.

Speaker 1:36:14

How to really run a city, found wherever you can find podcasts. Yeah.

Speaker 1 1:36:18

Um, when's your book come out?

Speaker 1:36:20

It will be out. Um, when I turn it in at the end of this month, it'll be 90 days in legal, so probably around November, Christmas.

Speaker 2 1:36:27

Okay.

Speaker 1:36:28

How many pages are we uh talking about? I don't know. I think I'm gonna be in at 3 to 350, not too long. Not 80. No, I'm not doing I'm not Bob Caro. No, I'm not doing Mass Descendant. No, you know.

Speaker 1 1:36:41

Um, well, great, man. Well, thank thank you again. Thank you for what you've done for our city. No, appreciate you coming down.

Speaker 1:36:45

Thank you for having me. It's good.

Speaker 1 1:36:46

Well grateful. Y'all, thank you for uh for tuning in to another episode of of Sunbelt Developers. We have a lot more coming for season three, and um, we'll see you there.