SPEAKER_06 0:00

Sumbelt Developers is brought to you by Northspire. Here's what Northspire does. On a development project, things become true long before they become visible. A vendor mentions a delay in a meeting, a cost assumption quietly breaks. Weeks later, it finally lands in the forecast. And by then, the cheap fix is gone. Northspire was founded by a real estate developer to close that gap. Budgets, forecasting, draw management, scheduling, vendor and bid management portfolio analytics, one platform, and it's all connected. Teams cut manual work by up to 80%, and leadership sees the whole portfolio in real estate instead of waiting on month-end reports. NorthSpire has facilitated more than $500 billion of projects, and every customer works with a real estate transformation consultant. That's an actual industry person and not a support queue. If you're interested, visit Northspire.com. Again, that's Northspire.com. Now back to the show.

SPEAKER_04 0:58

I was opening a restaurant in the second floor of a mall that was closed five nights a week. When we opened Dailies, we were the first restaurant to open with a front door onto a street downtown in 30 years. Initially, there were four of us. Within three months, two had left. One had a nervous breakdown, then the other one ended up in the hospital with mono. That's how hard we were working. And we opened for lunch in August, and we had 400 people for the first lunch. We have over 400 kids living at Cerembi, and there's not one reported sign of asthma, which is statistically impossible in the United States.

SPEAKER_06 1:33

But a lot of times in senior living, it's just all grayed out and medical looking.

SPEAKER_04 1:37

Look at the statistics of the decline of people's health the minute they move into one of these places.

SPEAKER_06 1:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:44

And so I call it a cruise ship to death.

SPEAKER_06 1:49

Hey guys, welcome back to the Sunbelt Developers Podcast. Um we have a lot going on. Today we have Steve Nigren in the studio with us. Steve, thanks for coming. Good morning. Absolutely. Steve is the founder and CEO of Saren B, South of Town. Um, and we've been here just hanging out, catching up on a lot of things. Uh Steve had an entire career before Saren B that will get into a lot of a lot of history in Atlanta. And um I this is gonna be a really fun conversation. I do, I want to give a quick call out. We had um Sunbelt, we had a our season two rap party just this past week, and we announced and launched our website. So if you're listening in, go to sunbeltpodcast.com. Shout out to my buddy Trent Swords, who made the website and did a great job. There is an Easter egg on the website. Um he put in like a little mini game where you can like explore Atlanta. He just went above and beyond. And I I guess he was vibe coding it and he just was going nuts. But anyways, check out the website um and let's let's get going. Can you tell tell us like your background? Like uh go go way back. Like you grew up in Atlanta, you would go way back in the U.S. I did not grow up in Atlanta. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 2:56

Uh I I'm a uh generational farm kid from Colorado. Okay. And uh uh could hardly wait to get away from the farm and uh uh went to the University of Colorado to become an architect. And a summer job in the Rocky Mountains uh seduced me into the hospitality industry and took a part-time job with Stopher's Food Corporation back when they were known for their restaurants and hotels vers versus the frozen foods. Yeah. Uh and that ended up into a seven-year career, and they moved me to Atlanta to open the Stoffer's Hotel on West Peachtree and North Avenue, which is now a Marriott, has just been converted to a Marriott right. Wow. And um so th this is j j j just a frame, uh this is when uh uh the um uh Maynard Jackson was vice mayor. Lester Maddox has just finished his term as governor. Uh it was a very different Georgia and a very different Atlanta. The mid-70s? Yeah. That was 1969 that I arrived. And uh that was the year that uh Atlanta uh became a million people and everyone was celebrating. Aaron Powell That was was Steve Missel? Was he and so uh Sam Missel? Well, Sam Missell uh was mayor. Um uh Maynard Jackson was vice mayor. Yeah. And and uh it it was a very different Atlanta.

SPEAKER_06 4:27

Aaron Ross Powell What was your take coming from Colorado?

SPEAKER_04 4:30

Very I mean Atlanta's I I I had never been well I I had been traveling for for for two years I had uh you know been traveling with with strophers uh to their various hotels, and so I came here. So I I I I it was really the first I'd been to the South. And so the attitude a lot of people have, you're coming to the sleepy South, and oh my goodness, here Atlanta was on fire, and I I just I you know I fell in love with it. Um and uh but uh uh the uh it was interesting because everyone did celebrate. I mean, we were a million people, we were growing. At two million, we were still popping champagne. And I think that we've done such a poor job of so many things around development. There's so many positive things that people uh we don't celebrate enough because we haven't always done a good job with things like transportation and land planning. And now when growth, everyone is afraid of it. Uh everyone moans when they hear anything that's being announced that's new, and and and that's too bad.

SPEAKER_06 5:27

Yeah. I know so Sam, his big initiative was Marta, and he amongst a bunch of things. He was a very pivotal mayor. I I remember has it played against Sam? He had a I read his biography. It could have been years ago. Yeah. It was really interesting. I he was like hanging out of a helicopter, like petitioning for Marta and like with a megaphone like over the highway, apparently, like trying to get people's attention for it.

SPEAKER_04 5:51

It was a huge effort that that Metropolitan Atlanta and the state especially did not understand. Yeah. And so it ended up being a uh a fraction of what it could have been and should have been.

SPEAKER_05 6:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:05

Uh and and and we still struggled with that. You know, there were there there was a great movement uh at that time, um, but but it just staggered.

SPEAKER_06 6:14

Aaron Ross Powell Yeah. I think the the most shocking stat I heard was DC's Metro and Atlanta's Metro started the same year. Aaron Ross Powell That's right. And here we are. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_04 6:23

And Denver started a good decade or two later.

SPEAKER_06 6:28

Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Oh, it's incredible.

SPEAKER_04 6:29

You can go all over it, you know, traffic. So it's uh you know, we've we we've had some some uh you know w when you look at a hole, it takes a real visionary to push it.

SPEAKER_05 6:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:41

If if you look at uh Hartsfield, he had actually had to buy the land himself, I believe, as the story goes, because he couldn't get the city council or anybody to do it because he knew that we needed an airport. Wow. Wasn't it like a racetrack or something? Oh I forget what. Yeah, it was Exactly. It was a yeah. And so you look you look at what a hard time uh Ryan Gravel had trying to convince people to, you know, and Kathy Woolard that they weren't out and everybody thought that was nuts. And so it it it really takes passionate people with visionary ideas to start transforming Atlanta. And so we've had we've had those people, but we've also had a lot of ideas that we've let go by the wayside.

SPEAKER_06 7:18

Aaron Ross Powell Yeah. Um talking about that. Any any particular you've been around a long time. Any any ideas that you wish had come to fruition other than Marta been.

SPEAKER_04 7:28

Where Marta could have been is is one of the huge things. I believe uh uh downtown missed a real opportunity uh that uh we I remember this was called CAP II, uh Central Atlanta Progress's study on CAP 2. Shirley Franklin was uh was in Maynard's second term as as the uh administrative assistant to show you where it was, and she chaired that uh for Central Atlanta Progress. What was CAP 2? It was Central Atlanta Progress and it was a a CAP 0. It was 2.0 for downtown Atlanta. And there was a lot of things on that. Uh I I really focused on the hospitality and and and tourism. And there were a lot of things on the drawing board that people were trying to move forward. And and I remember I was for the whole presentation that that we had this and we had all these exciting things. It was it was it was uh a a civil rights museum that'd be designed by Disney. And it it was an incredible thing where uh you you pi people came in and you actually rode the ships and and and then you came up and it was the the history and and the and then up on the decks and the light were all the success stories of the people who have come from there. It was incredible. It was a whole project to turn Sweet Auburn into into this jazz center and restaurants and and what have you. It was a different aquarium, but you know, so we f that was the one thing that happened. It was a a railroad history museum that that that's just incredible. Uh there were nice.

SPEAKER_06 9:07

These are amazing ideas. I mean, like, it was amazing.

SPEAKER_04 9:10

And everybody was all excited, and everybody went and and I remember because I said, but they all need us funding support. And I started putting black dots on them, and none of them happened. Jeez. We did underground, it was in the time of the underground, and everybody thought underground would solve it. We tried to get all the people who all uh all the real estate people in downtown Atlanta who basically had empty or just minimal rent coming in on the street level to just turn it over to the art galleries of Atlanta because we had all these hotel rooms downtown that were getting cabs going to Buckhead. And we wanted them to walk from the hotels on the streets, but the streets were unsafe. Wow. When we opened Daily's in, let me see, 1979, we were the first restaurant to open with a front door onto a street downtown in 30 years. The rest were all like within Peachtree Center and within the hotels. There wasn't a a restaurant opening onto the streets. Wow.

SPEAKER_06 10:15

Where was this?

SPEAKER_04 10:16

This was uh Daily's was on what is now uh International Boulevard at uh Andy Young. Wow. Right across from Peachtree Center.

SPEAKER_06 10:24

Yeah. Not that's not where the phone booth is. We got our little map. Yeah, I think I love downtown. I think there is a phone booth there now. The uh the red phone booth.

SPEAKER_03 10:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 10:33

There's like the department, I think is what they're calling it.

SPEAKER_03 10:37

Okay, so right, right, yeah. If you if you go to it's got a render for a second.

SPEAKER_04 10:41

Yeah, so you see right where the food right there, right there. Where the food where the knife and fork was when you were down there.

SPEAKER_06 10:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:47

See right there. See it right there.

SPEAKER_03 10:49

See that not not on the corner, but in between. No, no, this way. That right there.

SPEAKER_06 10:54

Where the mafia is.

SPEAKER_03 10:55

That was daily, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 10:56

Yeah, I'm gonna jump on the street. We'll see it. I think you got ten Lizzie's there and I forget what.

SPEAKER_00 11:02

Oh, here we go. Okay, yeah. And uh Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 11:05

Was this the same was this a building?

SPEAKER_04 11:08

Uh that that that is that is the b that is the building. Wow. Well, you see, yes, that that that is we transformed that and and those doors, th this was a fallen down this had been Regenstein's warehouse and the roof had caved in and I managed to lease that for three dollars a square foot for thirty years because nobody wanted anything in downtown. Thirty years. Wow. Now it's fallen in. I had to put all the I had to put a new roof on it, I had to totally redo it. Three dollars for thirty years.

SPEAKER_06 11:41

Was that flat? Like or you had a little escalator in there, maybe some bumps.

SPEAKER_04 11:46

I think it escalated every decade. The leases I negotiated were more valuable than than than anything because everybody wanted us because we know so so I either I either um had great lease deals, yeah, or I bought the real estate for nothing uh by a third. My deal was uh that if you wanted me to come in, you had to give me a deal where it was at least half of what it should be. Wow. Or I rent it for ridiculous low rates.

SPEAKER_06 12:20

Yeah. And they I guess the market was what it was, so you were able to get a hold of it.

SPEAKER_03 12:24

Well, that's it, because nobody nobody was down there.

SPEAKER_06 12:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:27

$3 square foot was better than nothing.

SPEAKER_06 12:30

That's a very low rent.

SPEAKER_04 12:34

And then we we we called it dailies.

SPEAKER_06 12:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:36

And because there were all these people in these office buildings, but nobody came out. They they came down from their office, got in their cars, and went home.

SPEAKER_06 12:42

Right. There would be this Portman. I know Portman had the hamster tunnels and they it was all insular and it was all in stay inside.

SPEAKER_04 12:48

And so we did this whole promotion we when we opened. We had a great cocktail line. The whole level was cocktail lines, and a grand staircase going up. And that whole second level, you see, was the big dining room. It was a huge huge.

SPEAKER_06 12:59

That's a very cool space.

SPEAKER_04 13:00

Oh, it was a re it's a really cool space. I mean, it's very much like it was when we did. And so we opened, we advertised the daily double. And and we had three sets of identical twins, a set of blondes, a set of brunettes, and a set of redheads. And they were passing out cards for the daily double. Okay, nice. Which is what it was two for one drinks. Okay, and overnight we became the place, and overnight we transformed that part of downtown Atlanta. Amazing.

SPEAKER_06 13:33

For three dollars a foot rent. And if you've developed anything, you know this one. The forecast and budget lives in one spreadsheet, the draw package lives in another, and somebody on your team spends the last week of every month stitching them together into a report that's already stale by the time it goes out. Northspire was built by a real estate developer to end that. One platform for budgets, forecasting, draws, scheduling, and vendors across every project you've got. Northspire has facilitated more than $500 billion of projects. Please visit Northspire.com. Again, that's Northspire.com. Now back to the show. Okay, I know we're jumping around. Where where does this line up with your stofers? So you you helped open up that. Is this like immediately after that?

SPEAKER_04 14:20

Well, I I arrived here in 69 to organize the groundbreaking uh uh f for that. Uh and then we built the hotel. In in between doing that, I uh I went to Cleveland uh in the home office for a snit, but I'd fallen in love with Atlanta because I was I was here every month then.

SPEAKER_05 14:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:37

And so I I I uh made the agreement that I was stepping out of the corporate and coming back to Atlanta. Uh or I was leaving. And so I moved back uh in time to for the last year of the hotel. And I uh opened the hotel in in October of 72. Okay. And I knew that path was going to be leading me on to the next hotel opening. And uh I I didn't want to do that, and so I took myself off that corporate and I said, I'll I'll just stay here, I'll take whatever, you know, and uh I I'm staying in Atlanta. And uh I realized that was I was sort of limiting there. Uh, you know, I could I could you know elevate from uh director of marketing to general manager, but that was about it. Uh and uh uh so I I stepped off the treadmill and uh two months later, resigned. Uh talked two of my friends who were part of the opening team. We'd been all together in St. Louis and Denver. Yeah. And uh uh we all quit our jobs and opened the Pleasant Peasant Restaurant uh uh on Peachtree Street. And that was just, you know, a a a crazy idea. Yeah. But uh we we we we rented that for $400 a square foot and I bought all the interiors for twelve thousand dollars. And I knew everyone knew where Peachtree Street was. $400 a month. $400 a month.

SPEAKER_06 15:53

Yeah, no, okay.

SPEAKER_04 15:54

Yeah. And uh uh so we, you know, it had been it was Vic's Delicatessen in 1900 for 50 years. But the last five years before we leased it, it had been five restaurants in five years. So you can imagine it was it was it it was in bad shape. Uh the indoor, outdoor carpeting that was there with has so much grease on it that it stuck to your soles of your feet when you walked through it. Well, the the landlord was just like, good luck, boys, here's the keys. Oh, oh yeah. Yeah. Well uh at that time, I think you mentioned uh Hicks Green. It was Hicks Green uh Chevrolet, I think, that was cat a corner, and they they owned that corner. And uh so you know, no nobody was leasing anything, so they were just happy to, you know, god they had they found some sucker that was willing to lease it for $400 a month. How how old were you at the time?

SPEAKER_06 16:44

Uh I was twenty-six. Wow, okay. Early. Stepping out. I mean, I know that's relatively speaking. Most of the guys that we have that come in here, it's like between 33 and 38 is when they they have their like, I'm gonna step out and be independent and whatnot. But 26 is great. You got your buddies, let's go start a restaurant. Let's go do this.

SPEAKER_04 17:04

You're not married yet at that time? Or were you? Oh, we were still you know wild, wild single people, opening hotels, you know, partying all night. You know, there was uh endless energy. Sure. Sure. And uh and so you know, we uh I put a keg of beer in the middle of the thing and started uh cleaning up the place. And uh we we we took that indoor outdoor carpet, and there was that beautiful old tile from 1900 under there. You know, it had a few holes, but that became a charm. We tore down the drop ceiling. Oh my god, there was this old tin ceiling. Had a few holes, but that gave a charm. That's cool. The the plaster that was falling off, we just let it come all off, and there was these beautiful brick walls. Suddenly we had transformed this incredible place.

SPEAKER_06 17:44

Are there pictures online? Can I can I find it?

SPEAKER_04 17:46

I think I think there are some, yeah. I uh if not, I have some, but uh it it depends on where you look. The Pleasant The Pleasant Peasant back in 1972.

SPEAKER_06 17:58

There it is. There it is. Brought casual fine dining to Atlanta, AJC.

unknown 18:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 18:05

We were there it is.

SPEAKER_04 18:06

Uh no. That's not it. Uh that is. The one you're on right there. Yep. That's it. So you see, there's the brick walls we transformed, and I mean it it was great. Uh got a few there I am down here sitting right in the middle of it. There we are, right at the bar. Look at that. That's the bar that I uh we've got. That's amazing. We bought it at a whole at a wholesale and uh yeah, and there I am this many years later in our Austins that we've opened at at uh uh uh Sarinby. So a few years later.

SPEAKER_06 18:35

Sharp young guy there. I tell you. So was everybody wearing bow ties and stuff? Like was it? Well, you know, meant to be like kind of fine-dining sort of well no no not not at all.

SPEAKER_04 18:44

But but I had um you you wore a tie a lot back in those days. And I did food tastings be before the the restaurant opened, and I ruined more good ties. So I found out a bow tie. You're out of range of this. Yeah. So I started wearing bow ties, it became my uh signature.

SPEAKER_06 19:02

How cool. Okay, so you did the pleasant peasant.

SPEAKER_04 19:05

So we did the pleasant peasant, and uh, you know, it was just like, oh my god. And we opened on a Friday night and we had 12 people. The only problem was that they were the 12 people who had all been helping us renovate it. And I said, I'm sorry. I've got to charge you. I don't have any money to buy the food for next week if I don't. And then suddenly with with within uh three months, we had lines out the door. Within a year, people would wait up to two hours to get in the front door. Uh we were the newest thing that had happened. I mean, in Atlanta and the Southeast, we were getting some national attention. Uh and and so one of the people that that was just fascinated with this was the general manager of Phipps Plaza. Now, Phipps Plaza was just in its fifth year of being open. And Atlantans did not like these fancy New Yorkers telling them what was in and not, and the mall was not doing well. And so all of the local merchants that had five-year leases did not renew. Oh wow. And here was a mall sitting with Sacks, Lord and Taylor's, Tiffany's, and mostly empty storefronts. Shrafts had a restaurant on the second floor and sitting empty, it's sat they didn't even wait for the fight. They they they closed, there was no business. And so the general manager uh wanted me to come in and do a restaurant there. Now we were less than a year old at this point. You know, we we we were just getting our our our our footing. And uh uh he he he convinced me that they they would basically m pay total renovation, carte blanc, whatever open checkbook, whatever we wanted. We would pay only percent rent and no rent for the first year. No way. And they would put a whole greenhouse along one side to hide the whole roof that was ugly that all the glass looked out. But I was opening a restaurant in the second floor of a mall that was closed five nights a week. Yeah, and I thought I could make it for lunch. Yeah. And we opened for lunch in in August of uh of uh 7 uh 4. Okay. Was that two years after? It was 18 months after the first one. A lot going on. And we had 400 people for the first lunch. Really? We opened for dinner and seven months after opening for dinner, the entire mall was leased. Wow. Because we had these lines.

SPEAKER_06 21:38

Did you call the owner and you're like, hey, can I have a kickback on helping you get your property back on track?

SPEAKER_04 21:43

I had free and I was a percent only. But what happened is the word spread. And suddenly I was getting calls from developers all over the country. Wow. Uh and this is when we we got the same deal. Uh Dick Meyrick was about to lose the real estate on the uh on the mall in Roswell. And he made me basically the same deal. It was a dirt deal. And then uh and and then of course uh the Botillas in Decatur called me. By this time I learned, hey, w you know, why am I leasing this even though it's dirt cheap? Right. And so uh because you're adding all this value to everybody else. And I said, uh oh no, I want to own the real estate. They said, well, we can't sell this. This is Decatur Town Center. You know, this is the whole center of downtown. And I said, I know. Yeah. And he said, What do you mean? I said, I know, that's fine. He called me back and said, Okay, we decide to sell it. Oh, wow. We'll sell it to you. Trevor Burrus, Jr.: This was just a part of their own. Oh, it was pretty much it. It's the whole historic front the Watkins Bill, the whole historic front that faces the down that Decatur, the old and you know, it had two offices on the blow and downstairs wall. And uh and baby it was basically it was empty at the time. There was nothing in there. You know, Decatur was was you know just starting to emerge. And and uh he said, we decided to sell it. This is what we'll sell it. Oh, I can't afford that. Why we why why what? Anyhow, I ended up buying it for a third of they didn't want to sell it. Then they quoted me a price.

SPEAKER_05 23:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:15

But they knew we were a major draw for that whole area. And if you talk to Lynn Minnie or anybody in Decatur, we were the beginning of of establishing Decatur.

SPEAKER_06 23:24

Can we take maybe five steps back? How is it that y'all were so successful as a restaurant? There's a lot of restaurants that come and go. And I'm sure there's some kind of basic principles and guidelines and how like Well, you have to turn the clock back to 1970s, the early 1970s.

SPEAKER_04 23:46

And most restaurants were reservations and rather formal and expensive. And it was the emergence of the fern bars. So the TGI Fridays, the uh all the various Did you call them fern bars? That's what they called them back. Because it was these bars and the they had a lot of uh ferns hanging around. So they did just like all of them were open. There was the fern bars. Like a steak and ale, and I forget it was all these chains. But we were bringing fresh food in a casual atmosphere, but with like white linen claws. I mean, it was the trappings that you thought it was fairing dining, but it wasn't expensive and it was casual and it was fun. And the prices were very reasonable. And so you were the the value, nobody I mean, we were value and we were consistent. Cool. And we built you talk to people still I I'm getting Facebook qu st and and notes, people remembering what they ate. And we've been close for 30 years. And and but that was the culture we had.

SPEAKER_05 24:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:53

We we we had folks uh uh Stanley Marcus of Neiman Marcus uh negotiated my first lease in Washington, D.C. to be n next to that. When the Pennsylvania Development Authority uh was redoing Pennsylvania Avenue between the White House and the Capitol. It used to be you couldn't walk at night, it was terrible. There were five restaurants that they chose, and they basically paid for all of our improvements to come in and open their so we we were we've been at the forefront, Philadelphia, Minneapolis, of of transforming areas that had been forgotten.

SPEAKER_06 25:27

Man, what a run. It was fun. I don't want to jump like too far ahead. It it ended up being y'all had what, 37 restaurants?

SPEAKER_03 25:35

We had 36 restaurants.

SPEAKER_04 25:36

Yeah, in in in eight states. Uh we were being uh traded uh on the New York Stock Exchange, and suddenly it wasn't fun anymore. Sure.

SPEAKER_06 25:47

I mean, going from one to two to five restaurants in a couple years, I'm sure y'all were blowing and going, but having that many people. So did your other partners there was there was the three amigos originally. And did they did y'all stay on the other?

SPEAKER_04 26:02

A long story. Initially there were four of us. Okay. Crazy that we thought we could even s you know survive. Yeah. Uh within three months, two had left. The pressure, I mean, when you come from an executive level, I it was it was it was one of the it was a proof of beverage ring. Yeah. This was crazy. And this was before we were succeeding. So two just w one had a nervous breakdown, then the other one ended up in the hospital with mono. That's how hard we were working. So it ended up two of us were survivors. Okay. That's right. Yeah, I like the And that was three months in. Wow. So, you know, this is those were the rough three months. And uh then uh we we grew from there. And then uh within I don't I we like our second restaurant, Bob Amick, who I knew from Stofer's, he was a a a student bartender, uh started working for us, and he later went into management and later became a partner. We we we made him a partner. So and and Bob Amick is still very much in the in the restaurant scene of Atlanta today. And so then uh uh a a group out of uh in the uh mid-80s or mid to late eighties, uh a group out of New York came to me while we were trying to fund all this. And I had three kids then trying to figure out uh w what was happening and how how I'd make all this work, because all my uh all my wealth was tied up in the restaurants. You know, if if something happened and we went under, everything went under. Uh and so I I was willing to entertain uh something, and uh this was a group of New York investors uh that wanted to buy uh small uh restaurant groups that uh that they could help fund and large. And we were at the top of their list. And so we we did a deal, sold 51 percent. Uh six months later, they bought Morton's of Chicago, and then that next year uh Bertolini's, and then uh in in the third th third year uh after the that initial purchase, they took us public on the New York Stock Exchange. And so I was running two segments. We had a casual segment, which was called Mix, and then the peasant restaurants, which are our finer table everywhere. Uh and uh uh after doing that for five years, uh now I was instead of running it for our customers and our employees, I was running it for the analysts. And that wasn't fun anymore. No. And so I I had a a a five-year clause that that I could out and I took the out and first day you could. And and went to the country. Oh, yeah. Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_06 28:32

Wow. Okay. How how old are you then? Is that forty? I I was forty-nine. Forty nine. Okay. So yeah, that's good twenty something years of running hard. Yeah. The restaurant game. Yeah. Where'd that work ethic come from? Like you're I don't know if you're spending a hundred hours working or from Colorado or Yeah, I was a Colorado farm kid. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:52

Just going you you you grew up working the farm. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 28:55

That's that's that's it. There's no choice. Like we got to do.

SPEAKER_04 28:58

The the cows had to be fed and they had to be milked, and there was there's just uh an agrarian work ethic that uh uh you didn't look back. There was there wasn't another choice. Cool. That's why I wanted to get away from it.

SPEAKER_06 29:11

Yeah, yeah. You you had served your cat. Um okay, so you're 49, Jugo Public. Um I guess what restaurants are there from that group? Does that go? They're all gone.

SPEAKER_04 29:24

They're all gone. People remember, you know, and and and then we had the fine fine dining. I mean, City Grill in the Hurt building downtown. Uh it it still, I think, remains the finest restaurant that, you know, the beautiful two, you know, this grand marble staircase in the center. It was the Federal Reserve uh space in 1900 when that building was built. Wow.

SPEAKER_06 29:46

It is a beautiful building. Oh, it's beautiful.

SPEAKER_04 29:48

And so that whole grand entrance was the entrance to our restaurant, the City Grill. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_06 29:52

You're talking right on the corner, you have the kind of like rounded.

SPEAKER_04 29:55

And you came up and you go the staircase up. Wow. And then you go in those glass doors. I don't know what's in there now. And you came in, there is that two-story, and then a staircase going upstairs. And and we brought we had a a muralist paint the walls in in in this tree and and and uh forest landscape. So you can imagine the the these were uh oh, i they were like forty-foot ceiling, and the walls were forty-foot with those great big windows. And it it was one of the grandest rooms uh that Atlanta's ever had.

SPEAKER_06 30:30

I don't know why this is coming to mind. What's the the alligator restaurant that was in underground Atlanta? Um down the hatch. Yeah, Dante's down there. Dante's Dante's. Did you know that guy? Of course. Okay. Back in those days we knew everybody. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What was I mean I I know my my wife told me about that restaurant and there was there was alligators. There were actually yeah, an alligator running around, you know. Yeah. In the mook. It's a bar now. Down down way down under.

SPEAKER_04 30:57

Way down under.

SPEAKER_06 30:58

Yeah. I don't know why that came to mind. I just I'm just thinking like back to back in Atlanta in those days. Yeah, like downtown Atlanta had really quite the scene, a lot of different things.

SPEAKER_04 31:08

A different time. But we we have never really lived through with it. You know, we uh underground Atlanta uh it it started as a great thing, and then there there was no central management or ownership, and so you had trash coming in next door to decent places like Dante's Down the Hatch. And so underground ended up closing because it was just it turned into trash. Trevor Burrus, Jr. So it wasn't the city that owned that would make it. And then everyone said, oh my God, this is one of the great assets. And so the city really led an effort to either buy or master lease all that lower ground level. Yeah. And so then this was the re-emergence of uh underground. And this is what all the everybody, all the downtown uh businesses that thought this was going to be the solution. Well, it was one of them. We had to do something every two years, is you know, but we we did that. And uh we signed the first lease to to show confidence. Uh we had a mix, a two-story mix. We had right the corner, we we got we we chose exactly we were the anchor, and you know, that building and the as we designed it still sits there just exactly. So we signed that to give confidence to everyone that we were gonna go in, and so uh and it was incredible. Uh but we we we didn't we didn't do some of the things to support it long term, and we see what then started happening.

SPEAKER_06 32:28

Yep. Yep. And and then I guess the WRS deal we had we had Cassim down just a couple weeks ago. And I'm sure that's we're jumping like a couple decades.

SPEAKER_04 32:38

But yeah, but what what happened then and and the Connect we could never get the the Atlanta real estate people listening, and this is where you know vision into the future. W we had I forget how many thousand hotel rooms because you know we had the World Congress Center that that that we'd funded, all the hotels were coming in.

SPEAKER_05 32:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 32:59

And it was only a few blocks from all those hotels to Underground Atlanta. But there was a a wasteland between those hotel lobbies and underground. And too many people were getting taxis going to Buckhead.

SPEAKER_05 33:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:15

And and and and all the food seen then in some of the in the Buckhead areas. And it it's it's those disconnects of of of meeting the dots that I think we've had trouble uh understanding. Uh uh we certainly saw, you know, I I had r restaurants in downtown, Midtown, Buckhead, uh Perimeter. I mean, literally, I have been involved in all the business associations throughout Metro Atlanta because of the restaurants we had. Uh and so we've many times we lock into what we have and worry about change. And we were really able to change Midtown because nobody cared about it. There was nothing there. You know, between Colony Square at 14th Street had gone bankrupt. Oh, you know I don't know about that. Well that opened with with the Fairmont Hotel and all these great ideas. Two of the buildings were never completed. It went bankrupt between you know, it was a it was a great idea that just was that was ahead of its time.

SPEAKER_01 34:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 34:17

And then you had this wasteland all the way to downtown. It's hard to believe that.

SPEAKER_06 34:22

And you look at pictures, you know, you've got to look at the car dealerships and stuff we were talking about and how yeah. I mean, even Bank of America was that was a car dealership at one time.

SPEAKER_04 34:31

And and you see the hippies, the hippies came in in in the late 60s and took over the hair the whole area. And so the the merchants and all that were there then, i they all it it was flight. This was the real flight. And so when the hippie I mean, when I arrived in 69, they were still all over the streets. And when they left around 1970, it it there was just empty storefronts. And literally, we had prostitutes sitting in the plate glass windows. It was, you know. Uh it it was terrible. And so this is when uh, of course, all the executives living in buckheads would drive down Peachtree to their offices, and you know, it was like that they kept pushing Dan Sweat at Central Atlanta Progress. You gotta clean this up. And so uh they funded a cleanup and they named it uh uh Midtown uh Business Association, but it was actually a committee under Central Atlanta Progress.

SPEAKER_06 35:32

Aaron Powell Is that what birthed Midtown Alliance? Aaron Ross Powell, Jr.

SPEAKER_04 35:34

And that is and so and so this was you know and and they I I went to like uh they had quarterly luncheons and I'd go to that, but I was busy opening restaurants, you know. Aaron Ross Powell You're very busy. And uh so this was cool. But I had restaurants, you know, in the two ends. I had two in Colony Square and I had then but the Pleasant Peasant Mixon, you know, in in the northern end. And so uh the uh Central Line of Progress determined that they had gotten it cleaned up. Well, they'd actually just pushed them off Peachtree Street and everything was back, you know, it it was still in i i i i in the side streets. Yeah, yeah. And so they weren't going to fund it. And so the uh the the organization was four years old and and it was like, what what what do we do? You know, the the officers and it was a group, it was uh an an architect and a lawyer in in Ansley Park, and Lewis Foster, who was the first first president, he had a a photo studio over on uh uh Piedmont, and and then uh Louisa McIntosh had an art gallery uh on Monroe. See, there weren't even any businesses on main Peachtree Street, even to that you could pull in. They were all fringe. And so they came to me and all concerned, and they they that that that there's still a lot of work to done. You know, they all they'd done is got gotten the prostitutes and the drug dealers off Peachtree Street. But now we gotta just stop. And so they talked me into taking the chairmanship, and I and I talked uh Dan Sweat into funding the organization for another year, and we would stand it up as our own, and that any members that he had that were in that square mile district, that he would be not upset if we went to them for a membership there. You know, that it wouldn't be and so Dan Sweat, you know, we we were friends, and so uh he agreed, and we hired Susan Minden as the executive director, and this is a a single mom raising three kids with but great, great spirit, you know, but we we could afford it, and I knew she had great spirit. Uh we brought uh the three neighboring neighborhoods of Ansley Park, uh Home Park, and Midtown Neighborhood in as the association, and then that's why the name then changed to Midtown Alliance. And so we had stood it up as a separate organization at that point. And Susan was executive director for 20 years until she retired, and then Kevin Green came in. So in all these years, uh since like 1981, there's only been two executive directors.

SPEAKER_06 38:06

Got it. I think I've told you before, yeah, Kevin's coming on talking about the part.

SPEAKER_04 38:10

And you look what what Midtown has done.

SPEAKER_06 38:12

Oh, dude.

SPEAKER_04 38:13

And and everyone, and every all uh all the the the the i i I kind of and fun to see what happens. All of the downtown leadership that smirked of what we were trying to do, they have now moved their offices to Midtown. It shows the importance of creating a vision for the future.

SPEAKER_02 38:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 38:34

And we understood, you know, that 1900 grid was a walkable grid that we had turned into a vehicle because everyone was trying to move traffic quickly through Midtown. And so we turned all these one-way streets, we took parking off, we we we we just put efficiency to get it through. And so it the what what then later became we set a great leadership in, and then uh within what, eight, eight years, it was the effort to do uh Blueprint Midtown. And the Woodruff Foundation funded that. We brought in the group out of Boston to r lead that whole effort. And really it was turning Midtown back into a walkable community that was originally designed for. What was it? Was this like nineties? Uh this was the this was the nineties. This was like yeah, Blueprint Midtown was like the nineties.

SPEAKER_06 39:26

I remember I had I had a buddy telling me he was like, I think he moved here early 2000s. But I mean, he was telling me he was like, yeah, Midtown was that was the thing. Like people it's it's been the thing for a long time, but like it goes way back. I I believe this plan probably was it that got it going.

SPEAKER_04 39:44

Well it is and I remember our agreement, there was hardly anybody living in Midtown at that point. I mean, it was you know, i I mean, you had them in the neighborhoods, but as far as on the Central Street.

SPEAKER_05 39:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:55

And oh, we had projections. Wouldn't it be great if we could get, I forget, X number. Well, now we have far surpassed all that. So uh uh the the real turning point was when IBM was selecting their headquarters. And this was their big regional uh headquarters. And of course, as everyone's speculating where they're gonna go. And it was like, oh, there's three sites in in downtown, there's two in Buckhead, and the long, long, long shot is the perimeter. Midtown was so out of anyone's imagination that it wasn't even mentioned as an option that they would consider. And when they chose 14th and West Peachtree, that was the turning point that everyone started taking a second look at Midtown.

SPEAKER_06 40:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 40:41

Wow.

SPEAKER_06 40:42

Uh well became one Atlantic, that was their headquarters. That's right.

SPEAKER_04 40:45

And and and then following that, then we we had the Olympics coming in, and so some housing came in, and then the Olympic Village was put on the edge of tech then, and and and we we started working with tech to bring them across the Interstate Highway, and so all that formation started as is that foundation and spirit. But the but the thing is it was we set an overlay for walkable, even though everyone during an auto-centric period thought we were ruining real estate. You have to look in the future. And I think today we're still we're we're still making all of our decisions looking in the rearview mirror about how much asphalt we're going to need, and what we should be looking is where where are our autonomous uh corridors going to be, and where are our drop-offs? And I I know I've been at both Ur Urban Land Institute and and TED conferences, and you know, they've asked all the development community, how many of you are trying to repurpose your golf courses? You know, and and there's a lot of people repurposing the golf courses that everyone thought everyone loved golf, and they actually were just looking for green space, but we hadn't connected those dots away back when. And they said, Okay, those of you who are building parking garages today, build them in such a way that they can be converted because you're not going to need them in the future. I can guarantee anyone born in this century is not going to be driving in car in the future. I believe it. And they're taking the keys away from my generation.

SPEAKER_06 42:14

Support for Sunbelt developers comes from Northspire, the development intelligence platform built for real estate developers. Please visit Northspire.com. Again, that's Norspire.com. Now back to the show.

SPEAKER_04 42:29

And so it's gonna be a very different place 20 years from now.

SPEAKER_06 42:32

It will. I've I've had my tests about a year and I I'm four months into you know, I fully subscribe to the self-driving thing now. It's incredible how good the self-driving is these days. And I I my son, who's almost two now, like I don't think he'll ever get a driver's license. I wouldn't see why. I mean it's it's there. It's good enough.

SPEAKER_04 42:51

The anyone born in this century sees a car as a burden. I mean, why should they have that burden of uh of having to worry about it, pay for the market and all that when when they can call a car?

SPEAKER_05 43:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:03

And and and there and there's and and and and you know, i i in in the labs, this is no longer going to be s five or six seats facing forward. You know, they they're they're developing to where you can be in a conference room, uh you you you you can have your manicure, your massage on your way to where it is. Uh it's gonna be uh you you know you you you have time. Yeah, it's a 30-minute window. It's all going to change. And and when all if you look at all the studies, uh that uh i as as the the the volume of uh uh autonomous shared driving happens, uh no matter those few accidents, it's so far ahead of drivable that the insurance companies are going to start taking the rates up on your drivable car. And it's the only way your Department of Transportation is going to be able to control affording the asphalt we would need. And you're gonna see license plates going up as there's an alternative. And twenty years from now driving driving your own car is gonna be like owning your own horse today. Wow.

SPEAKER_06 44:12

I mean I I I believe it. It's look at the It's good enough. I know there's my wife hates it, but like I've spent a month just kind of messing around and getting more comfortable with how just how good the software is. It's there.

SPEAKER_04 44:25

I I I came in this morning. Very easy in my Tesla. Just my ten-year-old grandson, when he he he anytime there's an excuse to ride, cut come to town with me. Yeah. But we insist parking and taking the Waymo's everywhere we go. He just loves it and knows all about it. Yeah. They're everywhere. Sidetracked. Yes.

SPEAKER_06 44:50

Yeah, I know. Yeah. No, this this is really this is groundwork for CRMB and this this whole thing that you all have going on down on the south side of town. Can we should we talk about CRMB now? Yeah, so you get to So the same thing.

SPEAKER_04 45:04

So you see, I it was um this is back in in uh uh 1994. Yeah. I'm living in Ansley Park in in uh uh one of the lar we had a an acre in Ansley Park on 17th Street, unheard of. Well, one of the original the original architect, it was his his original home. Uh and it had been turned into eight apartments during World War II. But he was he he did the post office, he did a lot of things. He was mostly a commercial uh architect, and so he was experimenting. And so this is a uh uh a house, three stories plus an attic, all poured concrete. And so it's a hearty house. When people would look at it, they were afraid to tackle it because it was all it had been divided, and you just couldn't understand what was what, and they knew it was poured concrete. Well, of course, that was just a beautiful challenge. It was a beautiful house sitting on top of the hill in Ansley Park on 17th Street. I mean, the site was just incredible.

SPEAKER_05 46:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 46:04

And so, oh what's it what's the heck? I you know, I I've had a lot of renovations. I didn't know. Well, it turns out as we tore down all the walls of the divide into apartments, they they had just the actual doors and hardware were still there because what do you do? And so we had the original house that we restored into this incredible house. We had a pool, you know, you you you you go out the backyard and you were you thought you were in nature, and you and you come out the front porch and all you saw the whole skyline of midtown and downtown. I mean, we were never leaving. We were on all the right boards. I could walk to, you know, Piedmont Park and Botanical Garden was coming out. We could walk to the Symphony Hall and the restaurants, Colony Square. I mean, we were never leaving. You had arrived. And then uh my wife saw on the back of the Georgia Preservation newsletter that there was a historic farm for sale south of the airport. I couldn't imagine there was really open land because we had been used like everybody else going north, Roswell. You know, we we went all my restaurants that we'd opened were north. I didn't have anything south of downtown. And um so uh I called and said, hey, uh uh we've got three small kids, and we thought we'd take a Saturday afternoon drive because I want to see this open land. I can, you know, I can't imagine. And uh, if you have farm animals, uh I'd love to pull in and show my kids. And of course, anyone with something for sale says, come on. We arrived, they had the Shetland pony saddled, and I bought the farm. Okay. And here again, it it it's an area they they they they'd had it for sale for like a year and a half, nobody was buying it. I could buy it for a great price. Open land this close to Atlanta is bound to be a good investment. Uh my three daughters were all just, oh you know, there were th they were three, five, and seven. And I could. And so I did. And so we leashed the main house out. My wife fixed the shack in the back in case we ever wanted to spend the night. I thought we'd come down a couple Saturday afternoons. This is kind of a novelty, isn't this fun? Uh their teenage son had put a lean to on one of the barns, and so we we we hired a caretaker to be there while we weren't there. And this is a fun little toy. To my amazement, it's where the family wanted to go every weekend. Now we had a pool, three girls, we had barbie cars with with batteries, uh everything daddy could buy, those little girls. You you know, you you have small children, you know how that is. Yes, yes. Whatever they do. Just wait until that that little girl starts looking at you and says, Daddy, daddy, and bats her eyes, and yeah, you're gonna buy anything she wants.

SPEAKER_05 48:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 48:37

And that's where I was. And and to my amazement, they wanted to leave all that to go to the shack where we had no toys, but a puzzle for rainy days. And doing that every day or every weekend and vacations, it changed my value system. I had the ideal life on the right boards, dressing up, going to all these parties to uh deal with diseases and raising money for the arts. And yet, what did we want to do? We all wanted to go to the farm when none of this was happening, and that's what we were finding. And a lot of people thought I was crazy when I sold everything and resigned from uh what have you. And I think post-pandemic, a lot of people understand how I re-evaluated my life and made some major decisions. And so that that that that was the beginning. And so I still owned all the real estate. When I sold the real estate, when I sold my my restaurant companies, I didn't sell the real estate that I owned. So I I had I had the restaurants paying. And then I had and then I had other, you know, I had, you know, it was offices and a lot of things that came with all the real estate that I had picked up. So I was just simply managing real estate, but having a great life I could travel, do anything I wanted. And then six years into it, uh uh call it my bulldozer story. The uh bulldozer's bulldozing the forest next to us. At that point, I owned 300 acres. I initially had 60, and then we put the original 1900 farm together because it was available. I didn't, you know, initially, no reason other than it was available and kind of, you know, nice to put the old farm back together. And they were bulldozing the forest next to me. And I ran out and stopped the guy and I said, What are you doing? He says, I guess they're putting houses here. That's what always happens. And I said, Oh my God. And I called the retired doctor, excuse me, uh, the retired doctor in Fayette County who owned it, couldn't get a hold of me. And uh started calling other landowners. Well, do you know what? You know, you don't know nobody knew. And I said, Well, you ever want to sell? Let me know. Unique stories about three large parcels that attached to us. One had been in a family three generations, they had to sell it because the the the the executor, the current executor, she was in her 80s and hadn't paid taxes in five years. Another had inherited from his dad, and he was a nasty divorce, it was the only thing that was in his name that he could liquidate. And the third had had it 30 years, and their kids now were in LG, and they had just decided they wanted to sell and go up there. And so within three weeks, I had another 600 acres under contract. Uh and so this was an effort if if development's coming, I'm gonna put my arms around it and try to protect it. Uh the retired doctor returned. I found he had sold it to someone down the road that was putting in, wanted to put in a pasture air strip. So the immediate threat was over, but I in in that panic, I found that there were other developers in our general area, just down the road, three miles, someone had 100 acres under contract. On the edge of Palmetta, they had just bulldozed a forest and they were putting houses in. And I thought, oh my God, uh I know how fast this happens because when I opened my restaurant in Roswell in 1975, I drove through four miles of country. They had just finished 400, but it stopped right at the Roswell exit to 441. And you look at that whole area now. I mean, once the development started, and now you can't, you know. And so it I literally was in panic. It was just like, oh. And our uh uh generational farms uh in Denver, there it's it's north of Denver, about 30 miles, the same thing we are. It's all suburban Denver now. And so it it it was both seeing my childhood land, seeing the land in Metro Atlanta just disappear over decades. Uh I wanted to do something. And I couldn't I couldn't keep buying land, and 900 acres didn't protect us from anything. Uh and we had a dear friend in in England, and we went to visit about every year with the with the kids because it was a nice, you know, thing. So I learned a lot about English land law. And uh after World War II, uh they they knew they couldn't afford this urban sprawl. The island was only so big. And so they put good landlaws in. If you've ever been, there's a lot of people living in the hamlets, villages, and town, but it still feels very country. And I said, why can't we do this in America? And of course, bringing English land law to a property rights southern state was a whole nother matter. And again, everybody said, you'll never get this done. And at this point, I was just the kooky retired hospitality guy with hair down to his shoulders. And you know, they they they saw me as the, you know, uh uh i i i uh person who was never a hippie during the hippie days and you know it's gonna relieve them. So no one took me seriously.

SPEAKER_06 53:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 53:34

Um and thank goodness because I didn't have to hire any lawyers or any land planners, but the university system thought it was great. And uh a friend of mine was uh Ray Anderson, uh interface carpet, who was one of the first uh U.S. industrials to put his company in a carbon neutral footprint. I turned to Ray and said, Ray, you know all the smart people. Who can help me figure out how to save this general area of Metro Atlanta? He asked the Rocky Mountain Institute in September of uh uh 2000. Uh they assembled 23 thought leaders, and we had a two-day conference, Georgia Tech documented, because these are some of the real names in the environmental movement. Uh and they have all been my consultants and never weren't have charged me a dime because no one was putting these things on the ground in actual community. These were experts in land, energy, water, all these things, but there was no one actually putting it on the ground to see how this practiced on a small community scale. Uh and I realized if we did something cool, we could ruin the whole area because if you look at seaside Florida, prairie crossing outside Chicago, uh the people they get next to you to take advantage of the thing, and then it all ends up kind of ruining the area from what it started out. And so I realized we need to look larger. And so thinking about the time we organized everyone in Midtown, I realized now that that was my uh my learn, my my my tutorial on how to organize a community for a bigger vision. And so I um I was just learning to use Excel back in 2001. Uh Fulton County had just put their tax records on floppy disks, you know, shows you how fast we've come. And so I got that and started sorting. And I said, I want to figure out who owns there's there's 40,000 acres on the tip of Fulton County that's still agriculturally zoned. Who owns half of this? Who are the largest landowners so that I can go to Fulton County and say I'm representing half of the landowners? And so I started organizing. And and there are total of 500 landowners. So you had 36 who owned half of it, and you had 500 that owned the other half. And so we we we had two approaches that eventually came together in a public process. And the large landowners, I mean, they, you know, you you you had a combination of land speculators and pro-development people. You had people like us who had found this paradise this close to Atlanta, and the inherited landowners were divided. Half said, bring on the bulldozer, that's payday, and the other half said, Don't you touch this? You know, we want our grandkids to inherit this beautiful landscape. Uh so w we had two groups, the groups that always fight in zoning. How could we give them both more of what they wanted? So thank goodness the Urban Land Institute had just released the studies on uh golf courses. And we have so many golf courses that were developed in the 70s, eighties, and 90s because the bankers in the financial community saw that uh lots in golf course communities brought a premium versus others in the in the general area. So the word got out in the development community: yeah, if you tell your banker you're putting a golf course in, chances are you're gonna get your loan.

SPEAKER_06 57:00

Interesting.

SPEAKER_04 57:00

And so this is what happened. And so the Urban Land Institute did a study of this, and they found that over 80 percent of the people who owned those expensive lots played golf twice or less year. So you realize they were buying it for the green space, it had nothing to do with golf. And there's parallels by land backing up to you look at Jackson Hall, Wyoming with National Park. So preserved land was the real issue. So I was able to go to the pro-development part of the community and say, hey, if we could get golf course values without having to put the golf course in or maintain it, why not? And here's the statistics. There's nothing else happening down there, so well, okay. And so I said, Would you would you support a major preservation effort by moving all your density if we could actually triple what your wildest imagined that you could get for your land? Of course. Then I went to the anti-development community, the basically the 500, and said, you know, at best, look look around Metro Atlanta. You're gonna save maybe 15% of this land. And all the preservation groups are busy up north with their money. Nobody will even come talk to us about putting money to save land down here. If we could save 30 to 40 percent, would you support development on a portion of land? Well, yes. At that point, I was ready to start a public process, and we hired Ecos and they ran the public process. My county commissioner Bill Edwards came to me and said, Steve, you're causing trouble down here. What are you doing? And he said, North Fulton had something that sounds a lot like this, and by the time they got to chambers, there were 200 people with ball caps for and 200 with t-shirts against. Don't set me up for this. This is 2002. I said, Bill, if you'll give me your support, public support, and the support of the planning department, I won't bring it forward if I have more than uh 30 percent opposition. And I can measure it because we have an organization we formed called Chattahoochee Hill Country Alliance, and it's $2 an acre to belong, and I'll be able to gauge our support. Two years later, when we brought this before the commission, 80% of the landowners were paying dues. The 20% that didn't support us never opposed us, they just stayed home. And we passed one of the largest land use changes on 40,000 acres in Metro Atlanta in three minutes. Unheard of.

SPEAKER_03 59:33

We had no opposition.

SPEAKER_06 59:36

So it was just unanimous called the commissioners. I mean, you're not gonna, you know.

SPEAKER_04 59:40

And there was and we talked to them all, there was no debate.

SPEAKER_06 59:43

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 59:45

And so, but basically what we did is stop development. And so I saw it my responsibility to to be able to demonstrate what I was talking about and that it could have the economic impact along with preservation. And so Sarinbee today stands is this example. Financial, we have taken a zoning trap that was that was one of the five lowest valued lands in Metro Atlanta, the 17th County Metro hour. And today, 25 years later, it is one of the most more valuable. Sure.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:21

What is the what is a plot, like a just a typical plot, go for?

SPEAKER_04 1:00:24

Aaron Ross Powell There's nothing typical at Serin B. I mean, you know, we we we we we we have we have areas where the townhouse going up the hill, it's 17, 18 units to an acre. Okay. And then we have like our one-acre lots. Okay. You know, our our our last so it it ranges and and and it it shows you the premiums. The appreciation has been huge. Sure. Um and and and people many times you know say, hey, it it's only for rich people. Well, m uh the the whole area, Palmetta, there's a lot maybe maybe not there, but the the the thing is, this area of Fulton County couldn't support its own tax base. In 2007, we could show the success of Sarinbi and we were able to petition to the state legislature and became our own city of Chad Hills in 2007. We broke around on Cerambi in 2004.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:23

By 2007, we had enough success that we could become our own tax base. Today's everyone's math. Today, Sarin B is 2,000 acres. We have only disturbed about over 300 acres. In a city that's 38,000 acres. In the last tax year, about 70 percent uh of our 300 acres is tax producing. That means it's it's a finished product that's on the tax records. And we represent 60 percent of the tax base for a city of 38,000 acres that has a full-time police, like 18 people, the fire department, the public works, and we are a thriving community. And we have been able to roll the millage right back three times in the last 10 years to keep our farms and our affordable housing taxes uh closer to the base as their values raised because of CRMV. And so this is why we are a model for governments, uh for for health and wellness. We we will be announcing next year a partnership with a university who's gonna study the results of uh of our children and people uh uh aging. Yeah. You know, we have babies. I was, yeah. Uh uh we have over 400 kids uh living at Sarinbi, and there's not one reported sign of asthma, which is statistically impossible in the United States. Uh we have people who who m moved to Sarinbi in their early retirement that are aging into their 90s now, and and the health differences you can see, the difference. Uh we have babies who are born there who are now in college. Uh what's the population? Aaron Powell And we're about uh fourteen, fifteen hundred people at this point. Okay. And uh and it's filled with what I say, you know, you you you'll see free-range kids and uncaged elders everywhere. Uncaged elders. And uh the this should not be a unique thing. It's amazing how many times people comment about where those kids' parents are and and then they're amazed to see you know people that they're used to seeing kind of hunched over and older, you know, that are obviously aging, but they're they're they're actively involved in the community.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:53

It reminds me of that Blue Zone documentary that came out. Sure, they're maybe all are a blue zone.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:59

Well, we would be. I mean, Dan Butner, I I know Dan Butner. We've been to some c conferences together who's who's the head of that. And uh no, absolutely. I mean we we we'd be what you would think of as a blue zone if you know I I don't want to be certified because I don't want to pay for it. But I told Dan he he he he he missed one thing because uh every place that they have r recorded is beautiful and he has not he is not given beauty as one of the attributes. And we've gone through the last several decades of being uh uh value engineering and efficiency, and we've taken away a lot of the beauty in our architecture, uh the importance of arts in our schools. And if you look at great places through through time, there's always an art patron, a religious organization that supported the arts. And it was one of the things that I th I saw was really important. And so we have a 1% transfer fee for every house sold and that will be sold into the future. And so we're putting over a million dollars a year uh from that into our nonprofit, the art farm. And so we have uh our art programming year-round, and they're able to let to leverage that money for a lot of other things. That's open to the entire community, uh metropolitan community. We have people flying in from out of state for some really incredible art happening down there. Sure.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:19

Okay, I got a question for you. Sumbelt Developers is brought to you by North Spire, built by a developer for developers. Visit Northspire.com. Again, that's Northspire.com. Now back to the show. Y'all are on this run. You break around in 2004, 2007 become a city, and then the GFC happens. And there's I don't know how many hundreds of developments that just came to a screeching halt and did not survive the GFC. How did y'all push through? Or maybe it was a a hold for a couple years or well, absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:53

It was it it was very difficult.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:55

Oh, and and some great stories. I can I I I I can do a whole seminar. I wouldn't fund for anybody, but I just you know, at this point I was uh I was basically self-funded with but with loans. You know, I'd uh we you know I started out very carefully uh on 40 lots and we were selling everything just you know incredible. And so I decided to really uh uh uh in like in like 70 uh or 70 uh 2006, uh I'd really go ahead and borrow some money. You know uh I I was never gonna borrow money again after being in the restaurant and being in debt you know the whole time. But all of a sudden I was in the passion, and hey, I was selling so fast. I mean I was selling out like w within weeks, I you know, every everything was that I'd put up. But builders were taking everything at them. We were the hottest thing going on in 2004, 5, 6. And so I really went into debt in 2000, late 2000, when 2007. And uh uh I the uh I had four builders who were going to take everything that I had was gonna bring to the market. Had contracts with takedown schedules. And uh we brought that to market at the end of 2007. Those four builders started, and in 2008, two went bankrupt and two stopped building. Of course, we tore up their contracts, and you know, I was glad that we only had to work through the a dozen or so houses that that that were started, and you know, some we finished with the bank and what have you. And I thought, well, I've been through recessions and I loved recessions in the restaurant business because we were solid, this is a great value, and man, I got some contractors to build restaurants for me for j just to pay their staff. So I thought, hey, I think I've lived through this, so where's the opportunity? Yeah. And then as 2009 arrived and 2010, I thought, holy shoot, uh my 36 month loans coming due.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:45

Oh man.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:46

And what am I gonna do? And so this is when we brought in what we call the Nest product. We redesigned five quarter acre lots, and uh, I put 15 houses on it, and we advertised a a um 900 square foot house for $265,000 geothermal solar ready. And we started walking out of the market that now it wasn't that easy because oh my gosh, the banks got stupider as they were going through the stress test. And and uh uh that that was a point that that the that that that that we had to we ended up buying our loan back. I got a private investor, we came in and bought it back, but that was just a path. And and and then we ended up through that then we ended up bringing in a a a selling uh a part of CRMB uh to bring in uh a partner to stabilize us. And so then and and then they brought institutional money, and so we were back on the, you know, as we we were we we stepped out and we were the people then by the time the recession over, we were rolling and going again.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:46

And uh and then six years ago we we recapitalized and and and brought it back with uh with a group of close, uh uh close people all living in Cerembe. So we we we it it's taken several several roads, but but we did. And one of the great one of the great stories is is uh that the bank, I I won't name the bank, but you know, th they were back against the wall on the stress test. And they just wanted to get rid of real estate.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:11

And and and and we'd made them a deal on on the percent that we would be willing to we had an investor that would we could buy their note, and of course they said no. And I said, fine, we're we're closing the lock, uh we're locking the the door and and and and and and walking away. Uh and and I had a consulting job in China and we were literally, you know, I wasn't kidding, we we we were gonna do it. Uh we were able to buy it back and and and and and walk back out. But uh a a after the recession, the analysts all started noticing that walkable and environmental communities were the first to walk out. So suddenly there was new interest in CRMB. The people that thought this was just, you know, Nigrine's fantasy suddenly realized that, hey, you know, that there's something to this, places all over the country. And so that's when we really started ha having to s sort of define who we were. And uh uh we were uh people would associate with new urbanism because of the success of the seaside and what have you. Well, where we we had the piece of it that was density, but new urbanism wasn't necessarily environmental in those days. And so that didn't totally define us. And then uh the Urban Land Institute had published a hardcover book on the ten top environmental communities in the wor in the nation. We were the only one in that book with density, with a village. You know, it was like Brays Island and all these great places, you know. Uh and so people were coming expecting environmental, and no, no, we're just this other. And then New York Times did a story on our farm because putting farms and houses together was crazy because people thought institutional farms, nobody wanted to live next to that, so putting a farm there. And so when they did the story, they called it an aggrohood, and that's sort of a movement within the whole real estate community of aggrohoods. And so we had these three distinct things that people were coming to see us for, but but we were integrated. And that's when we really started identifying as a biophilic design community. And biophilia is the you know connection of all living systems. And so that's why we were really leading that effort. We then formed the biophilic institute. Uh and uh so we are really kind of the headquarters and the test positive of that. And the beauty, it's not just Cerembi now, because we we we rezoned the 40,000 acres, but we have intergovernment relationships on green space for 65,000 acres. Now we stopped development for 25 years. Now we are in the global spotlight on uh on health and wellness and connection to nature. So we have preserved life uh coming in from India that they'll be opening very soon. Uh we have Dunaway Gardens restoring a 1920s uh uh arts center and cultural center. They have pictures of Walt Disney and his brother back in the day. People forget this was here. Uh the DB out of Arizona has rezoned or 8,000 acres uh last fall. And with that to meet our zoning, they're permanently saving 6,000 acres, putting all the development on 2,000 acres, and they're installing an 11-mile path along the Chattahoochee River. So and that hasn't cost anyone anything because now we've been able, developers are willing to meet our zoning requirements because now we understand the value of green space. Just like in the 80s, we saw the value of golf courses. And so this is the evolution we've come to where I think you're going to see this area southwest wasn't destroyed, and we're really poised to capture this nature-forward, walkable movement that's going to be going on for the next 20 years.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:57

Aaron Ross Powell This next phase, y'all have I mean, I saw a press release back a year ago. I think we were talking about it before you were kind of commissioned to get a 10-year plan together, is that right? Aaron Ross Powell, that's right.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:08

So anytime um you you you you pass a certain threshold of things on the drawing board, number of houses and commercial areas you have to get what's called a uh uh a DRI development regional impact. It's all about transportation through the Atlanta Regional Commission.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:24

And so uh uh that and of course those are all public. You know, we we didn't do a press release, but you know it's just out there and somebody takes it. It's out there and somebody grabbed it and suddenly we were at the front page of the uh the uh the um AJC on our 1.7 billion uh uh expansion, and that caught everybody's eye. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:46

You're like we're just doing what we were told to do.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:48

Uh but but so it put all things together, but it it i it it's two things. It's uh i it's all projects that we have moving forward, and it's also the frustration I have of getting investment because we're south of I-20. And there's not enough generally it has to be feasibility studies and a lot of things. And so uh this is why this is moving slower than we would like because of the capital stacks. But but uh we will be announcing uh publicly. Well, you'll probably, you know, you'll you you'll get the first sneak peek. You know, the the the project is not new, but the fact that we're actually moving forward is is is new. But there'll be close to the time this is uh people are hearing of this, but it's it's our aging in place campus. It's it's seven acres. Uh and it's uh I call it aging in place because it's not about senior housing, uh. Although that's what it is. But uh here again, everything we've done, whether it's agriculture, whether it's art, whether it's education, we have been at the forefront of change. And so it's hard to get get uh we've had to change rules, regulations, and it's hard to get the financing. I did a lot of this myself, but I'm out of midtown real estate, so I I I don't I I I can't keep doing that. Uh but we'll be announcing this seven-acre campus. Uh it does not have age restrictions. Our consultants are the head wiki group out of the Netherlands, so it's it's it's it's nothing like we've seen in America. But it's uh it's a place where we can live vitality as we age. And we're all aging, you know, no matter what a no matter what age you are, you're aging and you're headed, you know. Uh and and people uh uh encounter various uh uh health issues uh uh along that path. And so no matter at what point you've entered uh uh a window to where you needed advanced uh uh care on some way or just lifestyle, this is what we have. Uh and so it is a hospitality campus with 97 units. Uh it's a two-story uh uh building with commercial on the main floor and one or two-bedroom apartments above, and then cottages in in in the gardens, and then uh it's 24 uh independent cottages and then 24 attached cottages around a central garden, uh. All connecting over overlooking uh Cedar Creek, which is has the horse paths and the trails along it, and you'll have the gardens who will look down into that and then all the preserved land behind it.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:16

Are there any renderings out? Can I look at it?

SPEAKER_04 1:16:19

Yeah, there are renderings and I can get those to you. And um so it's a hospitality campus, but then we have attracted doctors out of Piedmont that have set up their own independent business to where they could really be doctors rather than agents to uh pharmaceutical and insurance companies. Uh we, you know, we have our own dentists there, we had the physical therapist, some of the best in Atlanta now ended up coming out there and then because they're they're moving out there. Yeah. Because they're lifestyle for their kids. These are all people who have just young children and they're professionals in these in these fields. And so we uh uh and a couple moved to Sarinby from Boulder, Colorado, uh now eighteen months ago to open the nation's first chemical-free pharmacy, Alchemy. Wow. Uh we have cold-pressed juices. We so so it it's it's a village that's providing services that keep you healthy rather than technicians trying to address your illness. You know, we've come we've come through a period and we're raising a lot of money and we're looking for something that that that that we can be injected with, take, get on, get in, that's gonna fix us instead of coming back to the root cause, which is the built environment. Eighty percent of what we die from is due to lifestyle. And nobody's asking the hard questions of why. And that is this is why I wrote the book, Start in Your Own Backyard, that it isn't big corporations, it isn't governments that are gonna solve this. We're all gonna solve this dealing with where we live and changing the built environment of where we are and what your talents are to change where you are.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:05

Yeah. Most development teams don't have a data problem, they have a timing problem. Something goes sideways on a project, and by the time it reaches the forecast, your only options left are a change order or a contingency draw. Northspire is the development intelligence platform that closes that gap. Budgets, forecasts, draws, and vendor data connected in one place. So your team sees the exposure while there's still room to act. Built by a developer for developers. Northspire.com. Again, that's Northspire.com. Now back to the show. My wife's an interior designer, and she um worked with this amazing lady, Jillian Cook, who's a resident in Buckhead. And Jillian has this um this thing, it's called Wellness Within Your Walls. And it was really all about the off-casting of it's four interior designers, but there's a ton of chemicals and stuff that are all over furniture and everything.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:58

And and all the chemicals that we have in our front lawns. And we wonder why our kids have asthma, why our elders have asthma, why we have cancer, and yet we aren't stopping poisoning where we live. That's that's the big message that I am trying to get out is let's stop and ask why why do antidepressant sales increase every decade in America? And why does why do we drop two to five points on the happiness scale globally? And why aren't we asking the questions of why? And I believe it is the built environment. And this is why people pull into Cerambi and feel something different and are surprised to see free-range kids and uncaged elders and people walking down the street and people waving at you. That shouldn't be unusual. But we're living in a day where those things are unusual and the statistics show it. We cannot afford the the the cost of our uh health benefits. We cannot accom we we cannot afford what it's costing us. Uh and and and we're spending more on health on on health prevention than any other nation. And we're sicker than most.

SPEAKER_06 1:20:17

Yeah. And it keeps it keeps going.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:20

And we're not and we're not coming back to the root cause is the built environment, the kind of places we've been building for people to live and work.

SPEAKER_06 1:20:27

So I'll ask for for aging in place, like the materials and place like how how are y'all building it in a way?

SPEAKER_04 1:20:36

Okay, so it's going to be, you know, it it's going to be in a garden, there's going to be no lawn, that there's no lawn anywhere. Uh the front door, the the commercial building opens into the street with all these health providers you can just walk to. Uh it's um uh uh I I found that when I really looked at some of the best uh housing, senior housing in America, uh and and uh I found everyone complained about the food. Uh I ate in a lot of these restaurants and the food was really good. Uh it talked to the chefs, the food and beverage managers, they were frustrated. They felt they could never keep everybody happy. And what I came to realize it was the loss of buying power that people were feeling. It it it's that it's that sense that I don't have a choice. I'm gonna eat in one of these five, six restaurants, and and they all see me coming, and it's just it's it's well while the service staff was nice, it's very different than if you're nice or you're trying to earn their business. And so we're we're doing shuttles to all of our restaurants, and your food credit will be good in any of the restaurants, and it's up to the restaurant if they want to do five o'clock specials to attract more people or whatever they want to do to get a bigger share of the business. So it it's subtle things like this. Uh if you look at the blue zones that you mentioned, they don't have elevators. You know, it's that they're walking up stairs, they're walking up hills, and yet our whole attitude about senior housing is luxury and a sedentary lifestyle. So we have stairs everywhere. There's an elevator, you can find it if you need it. But but w we have stairs everywhere. Uh it was one of the hardest things. We hired architects who do senior housing. They knew what I wanted. They were such everyone's trapped in a sub box of regulations of what's expected. It was I finally had to grab the pencil and say, no, this is what I'm talking about. And now they're so excited about this. Um the interior designers, we had to push them into a whole nother because they dealt with senior housing as well. I I wanted people who were in senior housing, and I could push them where I needed to from all of the other things. I did I didn't want to uh do something that was just totally that I should have known from senior housing. The interior designers out of Austin, uh they had to end up to get all new samples in their room because they didn't have anything with vibrant colors. All the studies that I saw in in Sweden were to uh to keep your mind active at the end of life, it's the same as the beginning. And so they they they designed with all these primary, you know, a big yellow sofa and a big red, you know, couch and uh pillows.

SPEAKER_06 1:23:15

Trevor Burrus, Jr.: But a lot of times in your living, it's just all grayed out and medical looking. But this is yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:21

Trevor Burrus, Jr.: And when you and when you're aging into your 90s, you don't need the luxury and then and the heavy crown molding. You want something that's gonna make you feel alive and alert and and with this is where we're we're so in a rut in our thinking that we're not really looking at what's happening. And you look at the statistics of the decline of people's health the minute they move into one of these places.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:48

And so I call it a cruise ship to death. You know, what's that? That's it. It'll take you there. Yeah. Well, everyone's headed to the same place, and you're seeing everybody you know, and and and there's there's there's all the comfort, you know. There's all the you know, uh all the games and volleyball and meals and buffet. Yeah. Eat as much as you want to. Make it enjoyable. That's right. Yeah. And so this is to keep you vital rather than a luxury.

SPEAKER_06 1:24:16

Aaron Powell Got it. You're saying the cruise ship to death, this is like how the the typical model is. The typical model, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:25

Well, you're integrating life. We have it right across from the school. You're gonna hear the laughter of the kids. Oh, that's cool. Uh you're you're you're you're gonna be in nature, you're gonna be engaged. You w we're gonna do um there's all the arts programming, you can volunteer on the farm, and it's not just doing these things with a bunch of other old people. You're gonna have multi-generations working together. This is no different than eighty years ago. When when I grew up in in the 50s, we didn't have senior housing.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:01

I knew five of my great-grandparents. You know we don't have that today. No.

SPEAKER_06 1:25:10

I hear the commercial real estate side where people are like, oh, it's a growing industry, and it's um sure as an opportunity opportunistic investor they talk all about that, but I mean the greater picture and how that impacts our lifestyle and people and there's there's a lot more to it.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:27

I mean, the baby boomers aging, it's gonna be one of the greatest changes. Yeah. But w we have seen that it didn't work out so well for our parents. Yeah. You know, the the whole idea, I mean, the the uh you know, our parents' generation came through uh the you know, being raised in the recession, went through World War II. That was rough. And so and and and then all of a sudden you had you know uh all this thing is promised you know, a retirement of luxury. And so they they were always living to go into luxury. And now we find that luxury isn't exactly where our generation wants to head because we've seen how that worked out. And and and we're we're living longer, we're living healthier, and we want to stay engaged. And I think this is one of the great opportunities that we have. You know, the baby boomers. Uh we're the only generation in in the 60s we were gonna save everyone with uh sex, drugs, and rock and roll. Uh and then this same generation, sometimes the same people, I know them, that had long hair and were, you know, wild and smoking pot, and and uh they became the greed generation of the 90s. You know, that same group that were you know walking tenth and peach tree, th then went then went to New York and Wall Street.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:54

And now as we retire, we're the only generations that have lived the extreme. And I hope that pendulum can come back to center.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:04

And we can work with the people who've been born into this century into a very fragile world. They're they're asking the hard questions. They're not going to be able to drinks anymore.

SPEAKER_06 1:27:15

They're not I'm I'm curious like how how this generation is gonna be.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:18

They're changing because they see what a screwed-up kind of world we have. Yeah. And you know, my generation, it's always worked out. And so when things are rough, whether it's a recession, whether it's a you know political chaos, whatever it is, we just shrug, have another drink because we know it's gonna change. But people today that are born in this they're not sure. And all the statistics show it might not change if we don't act. And they're ready to act. And so I hope the baby boomers, as we move into retirement age, it it doesn't mean you stop working. It you know, it it it it it's I call it elderhood. As we move into elderhood, I think, you know, we look more at our Asian cultures to where you it's respected, and we can work with these young people to really solve some of the really serious problems we have, uh, because because there there's a lot of them. And and and we've got to come up with solutions, and they're not difficult. This is what we've proven. We we've shown the impossible in zoning, in how people live, and bringing vitality and how it changes you your your your your mental attitude and your physical uh uh being.

SPEAKER_06 1:28:34

I know, I just I keep thinking about so my my grandmother had a a house way up in the mountains, and I remember her her husband, it was my my mom's step stepdad. Um when he passed away, I mean she was up in the mountains by herself on the TV, and I just remember seeing the mental decline. I was in middle school at the time, and it was like within two or three years, it was I mean, dementia had totally taken over. And um that's like the exact you know, the opposite of you know being involved and having kids across the street and like being in in a in a community and um I just I saw it firsthand. I was like, this is don't do that. Don't don't isolate and you're later on.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:14

All the statistics show it. Yeah. And you see, it it's pretty clear when a person is isolated totally. Yeah. But what we're not realizing is some of the same effects when you're isolated into your same group of people. If you're all 80 and 90 aging together, it's that same sense of isolation. Even though there's people there, you're not engaged, you're not connected. You're you're and this is why I I think that's more like a cruise ship.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:42

Everything you need is there except connection to nature or to a a mixed generation community.

SPEAKER_06 1:29:51

Yeah. Well, Steve, this has been amazing. Is there anything else you want to call out or or share? I know you have a couple of things.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:58

I want to know when you are coming to visit Cerambi with your wife and two children. I mean, you know, this is you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:03

Maybe as it as the fall happens, I I know it's very pretty down there during the fall, all the leaves and everything. We'll have to make it sure that's it.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:10

It's pretty all times.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:11

I'm sure it is. It's been really hot though lately.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:14

Well, but but you know, uh Sarinbi is south of Atlanta and we should be hotter.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:21

And we're at least five degrees cooler. Oh, nice. And when you get into the shade, it's it's not just ten to fifteen cooler. Okay. And so if you walk through the woods or down by the streams, it's not so hot.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:36

All right. Well, we'll come down. Okay. I'll let you know we're coming. Yeah. This is great. Steve, thank you so much for your time and and sharing your story and and just the impact you've had on on Midtown Atlanta and the south side of Atlanta. And um Is there another Cerambi coming? Are you gonna start a whole new community somewhere else?

SPEAKER_04 1:30:54

Well well what's happening is is Cerembi is becoming a global model. It is. I mean you're insane, you're flying all over. We're not we're not gonna reproduce Cerembi.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:06

But now we are through our podcast, through my book, and our consulting company of Nigrine Placemaking, yeah. We we are sharing what we've done. Uh in fact, at the end of this month, we have our our our conference for real estate developers. I should have I should have mentioned that. Nigrant Placemaking.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:23

Shout out everybody. You gotta look it up.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:25

Yeah. And so that's Nigrine Placemaking. It is the uh the 28th, uh, ninth, and thirtieth of September.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:34

All right.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:35

And we're doing a a a post-conference trip. The the the conference itself runs up runs out about 11, 10.30 on on Wednesday morning. Okay. And the whole time you're there, we're eating in the restaurants, we're out walking. It isn't one of those things where you're in a ballroom talking about what should happen.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:52

I have a hard time with those.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:53

We're actually showing we we we we bring in w uh Steve Cover, who was head of Fulton County um uh planning and zoning, he comes in from wherever he is. He's in Sarasota, Florida now to talk about what it's like when these crazy people have ideas and how you should talk to your government, our civil engineers, our architects, and we bring in our current uh business owners. And so it's a it's it's it's a real fun time. But then the post is going to be fun. We're gonna go see Preserved Life, which nobody knows about. This will be a sneak peek. We're gonna do a sneak peek at Dunaway Gardens, and then we're going to the Good Place Farm. This is this is a a mom who decides she wanted to raise her kids. Uh it was a divorce. She decided she wanted to stay on the land they bought near Sarinbi. And she's created a whole new uh thing about agritourism and goat snuggling. We're going to have uh go do goat cheese tasting and then snuggling baby goats. And she's made she's got so many followers on Instagram. And so there is so much happening more than Sarinbi in this area. So we're we're sharing all that and how we can actually change places in different ways all over the world. Aaron Ross Powell So September 28th, 29, 30th.

SPEAKER_06 1:33:02

That's right. And it's called Nigrine Placemaking. It's coming up. Coming up. We'll have to come check it out. Come on down. Let's do it. Let's do it. That sounds good.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:10

But we'll do a live broadcast from down there.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:11

Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_06 1:33:12

We could. Do it production team. That's right.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:14

We have a podcast, Rome.

SPEAKER_06 1:33:16

You're right, you do. We just hit record. We should do something.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:18

And you should see, I should mention too, Bloomberg uh just released that we are the world's greatest biophilic community. And they did a whole taping, and you can see that. That's just released Saturday. Wow. And uh look that up.

SPEAKER_06 1:33:31

All right, I will. Well, Steve, this has been awesome. Thank you. Thank you so much for coming. So much to talk about. So much. I feel like we could go on another hour about just Midtown, too. But um all right, y'all. Hey, thanks for tuning in to another episode of Sun Belt Developers. Um more's to come.